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MarkJ · 07-01-2017, 10:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exile

Unless the owner has more info, maybe all you can do in contemplating some sort of search is start by assuming the best case scenario and working backwards based on estimated miles of drift/day. Seems like a tall order but if resources can be safely & affordably mustered then why not? Had no idea that Class B won't leave as reliable a satellite track as Class A.

I don't think any form of search is viable and have told AWW that.

My advice has been to constantly disseminate full information to all shipping in particular to all fishing boats via fishing co-ops on the different islands, stressing the $10k reward.
Reasons:
* increased chance of finding when it comes through the islands.
* $10,000 is a lot of money to a fisherman and he will put the boat in tow.
* $10,000 cash may be quicker and easier for the fisherman than to have to put up or defend a salvage claim.
* if there is a salvage claim if the finder has been given information about the vessel incl locations, then he could not expect the highest payout as he could expect.

Its up to the owner to get the information out there EVERY DAY. Constantly reinforced so people do actually keep an eye out for it.

Re Class B AIS and reception by satellites: its pretty damn poor. A guy who watches me only got 2 pings in 2 weeks from my boat.

Exile · 07-01-2017, 11:11

I think your idea of what is a substantial $10,000 reward, along with suggestions of how to get word of it out, is the best idea I've read yet. Not only in terms of chances of recovery, but also cost-effectiveness. I would imagine that same $10,000 would evaporate quickly if attempting an air search, and the chances of finding the abandoned boat through use of another boat seemed remote.

Terrible situation for this owner and I feel for him. Good of you to help, and hoping for a positive outcome.

DumnMad · 07-01-2017, 12:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkJ

I don't think any form of search is viable and have told AWW that.

My advice has been to constantly disseminate full information to all shipping in particular to all fishing boats via fishing co-ops on the different islands, stressing the $10k reward.
Reasons:
* increased chance of finding when it comes through the islands.
* $10,000 is a lot of money to a fisherman and he will put the boat in tow.
* $10,000 cash may be quicker and easier for the fisherman than to have to put up or defend a salvage claim.
* if there is a salvage claim if the finder has been given information about the vessel incl locations, then he could not expect the highest payout as he could expect.

Its up to the owner to get the information out there EVERY DAY. Constantly reinforced so people do actually keep an eye out for it.

Re Class B AIS and reception by satellites: its pretty damn poor. A guy who watches me only got 2 pings in 2 weeks from my boat.

Great stuff Mark.

Scout 30 · 07-01-2017, 14:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkJ

I don't think any form of search is viable and have told AWW that.

My advice has been to constantly disseminate full information to all shipping in particular to all fishing boats via fishing co-ops on the different islands, stressing the $10k reward.
Reasons:
* increased chance of finding when it comes through the islands.
* $10,000 is a lot of money to a fisherman and he will put the boat in tow.
* $10,000 cash may be quicker and easier for the fisherman than to have to put up or defend a salvage claim.
* if there is a salvage claim if the finder has been given information about the vessel incl locations, then he could not expect the highest payout as he could expect.

Its up to the owner to get the information out there EVERY DAY. Constantly reinforced so people do actually keep an eye out for it.

Re Class B AIS and reception by satellites: its pretty damn poor. A guy who watches me only got 2 pings in 2 weeks from my boat.

This is one of the best, most constructive posts I've read on any thread on this forum. It might be painful for the OP to hear but it is sound counsel & should be taken to heart. This is the kind of wisdom you hope for when you come to this forum for help & it's what keeps me coming back.

allwentwrong · 07-01-2017, 15:18

I had an interesting email from a friend today about our rudder ' Apparently they use aluminium stringers in the rudder attached to the stock which fatigue off letting the rudder drop off but leaving the stock there - its a common problem'.

Well worth checking the construction of your rudders before you take on a big passage

bob-lauriem · 07-01-2017, 16:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exile

I doubt I would either. Then there's the occasional, usually hard-wired bilge pump turning on, possible CO and smoke/fire detector(s), and battery self-discharge. Maybe minimal loads, but lots of variables and several unknowns. Unless the owner has more info, maybe all you can do in contemplating some sort of search is start by assuming the best case scenario and working backwards based on estimated miles of drift/day. Seems like a tall order but if resources can be safely & affordably mustered then why not? Had no idea that Class B won't leave as reliable a satellite track as Class A.

Class "A" is about 12 watts where the Class "B" in about 2. 6 X difference.

bob-lauriem · 07-01-2017, 16:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by allwentwrong

I had an interesting email from a friend today about our rudder ' Apparently they use aluminium stringers in the rudder attached to the stock which fatigue off letting the rudder drop off but leaving the stock there - its a common problem'.

Well worth checking the construction of your rudders before you take on a big passage

That and maybe a few other things. A well found boat is important to say the least. Glad to see the reward vs some of the suggestions on this thread. I am back in Barbuda and spreading the word. Fishers, locals as well as other cruisers who have no idea it is out there. IF I happen across it (unlikely) and bring it in, well a case of beer should do it.

The reward is a much better idea than risking everything to get it back. I assume your family is happy. Give them a hug.

Bob + Laurie

Hedonism

My New Website Home

MarkJ · 07-01-2017, 17:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob-lauriem

I am back in Barbuda and spreading the word. Fishers, locals as well as other cruisers who have no idea it is out there.

Bob + Laurie]

Bob, if there a Facebook page for cruisers in Antigua and Barbuda?

David Hughes · 07-01-2017, 17:16

James- I just finished reading your wife's wonderful blog. So very powerfully written. She's a great writer.

So glad the kids and your family are safe. That's what's most important obviously.

Wishing you the best of luck in retrieving Dove.

Please keep us posted.

Scout 30 · 07-01-2017, 18:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Hughes

James- I just finished reading your wife's wonderful blog. So very powerfully written. She's a great writer.

So glad the kids and your family are safe. That's what's most important obviously.

Wishing you the best of luck in retrieving Dove.

Please keep us posted.

Can you provide the link to the blog?

David Hughes · 07-01-2017, 18:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scout 30

Can you provide the link to the blog?

Westerlyadventures.wordpress.com

brownoarsman · 07-01-2017, 20:25

Thanks AWW for providing a clear view of the rescue process at sea on your family's blog. Will be helpful to many other sailors I am sure, though of course sorry for what you had to go through to write it.

As a bit of very dark humor, I clicked on the link for 'The Boat' and the website returned the message: 'we cannot find what you're looking for.' "Not the only ones, huh?" I thought.

**weavis** · 07-01-2017, 21:52

FORT DE FRANCE COASTGUARDJanuary 6, 2017 · by westerlyadventures · in Uncategorized. ·26th December.

https://westerlyadventures.wordpress...017/01/06/253/

This morning we had arranged to visit the Fort de France coastguard, we were there for nine. This was an incredibly emotional meeting, we were welcomed inside and then talked through the process of our rescue, the lady in charge was struggling not to cry and it was hard not to just jump up and give her a cuddle.

Apparently when it went wrong for us it went wrong for a number of other yachts as well, so they were very busy. Not just that, but at the same time the year before they had had a similar situation where a yacht was in trouble and they had been unable to save them, so they had just wanted us to survive, to be rescued and be alive. Hearing this I was just grateful for all that they had done and that we were alive.

We met with all the staff, thanking them all and then James sat down with them and looked at the boats last AIS position and the drift zone that she was heading in, it is so far offshore and such a massive area, with our luck we are never going to find her and the enormity of the task hits me.

We left the coastguard and met up with Kat and Will who were staying nearby and who James was taking to the airport along with Tony. It was lovely to see them again, I think I will always have a huge place in my heart for Will because it’s his face I see when I think about the rescue, when I handed him my children, in that moment the look of concern and concentration on his face and that he didn’t drop them. He had said that as he grabbed each of them it was probably seconds but it felt like he held them for ages and whilst he had Heath in his arms this little boy had just cuddled him back and quietly said thank you to him.

We had a quick drink and then the children and I waved them off and set about getting ferry tickets to St Lucia. At the ferry terminal we hit a hurdle, as we had no onward flight we weren’t allowed to go to St Lucia, I tried to explain what had happened but no, bugger. So back up to the coastguard who wrote us a very stiff letter explaining our circumstances, they also spoke with the British consulate and border control, we should now be able to go. Back to the ferry and yes it worked, we booked tickets for the following day. We returned to the hotel, James had put a help on a cruisers forum and was being inundated with messages of encouragement and offers of help, a Welsh guy called John had offered Jim help to find Dove II and to stay aboard his yacht in Antigua, this was it Jim booked a flight for the next day. It was done, even though we didn’t have a clue of what we were doing, we didn’t want to just give up and go home, we had to try to find the boat and keep going and the only way to do this was to split up.

We would be saying goodbye to James again, us to St Lucia and him to Antigua, we went out for pizza then crashed early, everyone was exhausted, it had been an emotional few days.

Source: Fort de France coastguard

ErikFinn · 07-01-2017, 22:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by allwentwrong

I had an interesting email from a friend today about our rudder ' Apparently they use aluminium stringers in the rudder attached to the stock which fatigue off letting the rudder drop off but leaving the stock there - its a common problem'.

Well worth checking the construction of your rudders before you take on a big passage

Allwentwrong, you just may have a chance to survive this and earn a new nick name, "Allwentbetterthanexpected", let me elaborate later.

First, you should start thinking if you can recover some of your losses. Fortunately no lives were lost, but by now it seems recovering your 300K USD Hanse are getting slimmer and it may be a total loss.

You said insurance does not cover this. I know they are all thieves but what the $@₩%&ing kind of an insurance company does not cover this kind of aloss?? If you do not have an insurance at all that's another story. Same thing if your were in violation of the terms. Other than that I just can not fathom.

And now to the point: if the potential rudder failure was a known issue to the manufacturer and there never was any recall and they did nothing to sort it out that's gross negligence right there which could have ended up in loss if life, and still may do so with other Hanse owners.

I know any American lawyer would be drooling over your case. Maybe Euopean ones somewhat also, as I reckon you are European. Ask around. It costs nothing. You have a great resource just here with CF. You may end up better off than you may be thinking right now. Just do some research. Its free.