Urgent help needed to recover abandoned yacht NW Barbados

[Scout 30]

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

Sadly, yes, even worse, imho. A couple and their boat were grounded off Ocean Beach in San Francisco many, many years ago now, probably about 40 yrs. The people on the beach ganged up on them and started stripping everything off the boat, for themselves. How terribly traumatic the whole even must have been. All those strangers claiming salvage, when the boat was not abandoned, and the owners begging them to stop.

Ann

That's simply grand theft & probably assault along with it. Maybe even home invasion. I'd be surprised if stripping a boat instead of saving it is considered salvage under any circumstances.

[meatservo]

AWW,

I think one of the smartest things you did was to post here, many people now following this thread, the positive response and support has been incredible.

Kind of restores my faith in Humanity! I hope it all works out and you get your boat back...


meatservo

[hellosailor]

Allwent-

"Last AIS position 17'15.56N 53'28.76W 23/12 1200utc"

Then you have not purchased any satellite AIS information. One poster mentioned four companies, and I know there is at least a fifth. Each of them listens for AIS by their own fleet of satellites/receivers and the information is then SOLD to private parties. You can contact any of them and ask if there is information on your vessel, and what a 30-day subscription will cost you. And whether they'll make an accomodation for you since the vessel is in distress. But your anticipated and stated search area is totally at odds with the course and speed indicated by that last post from the 23rd. (Which can only have come from a satellite source, or a 500 mile atmospheric bounce, possible but unlikely.) The problem is simply numbers. Your expectation of Antigua is one thing. The prospective search area based on the data from th3 23rd would now be 1000+ miles from the nearest land and growing, requiring an aircraft with a 2000 mile range to simply take a peek. Actually, a 2500-3000 mile range since the pilot will not want to land with empty tanks. And if you wanted to spend a few hours out there looking for your boat...again, unless you buy current and active satellite AIS data *now* and it shows a much different location? The only way to fly out would be in something like a Hercules, with a daily operating cost very roughly $25,000 at a minimum. Sorry, but I haven't seen one reason to think the boat isn't a thousand miles from the nearest land, well outside of shipping traffic, which means there's no chance of looking for it, and the very practical means of going directly to the boat via ship or plane, ceases when your AIS stops running. If it hasn't already. Since you force us to make assumptions, I'll assume you had enough fuel to idle the engine for ten days. I'll assume the engine co-operated and continued to idle. And that a 53' boat might carry 600+Ah of batteries, which could keep the AIS running (another forced assumption) for another month or two. But that's stretching the string. Without the sat-AIS data, without anything beyond the position and course given on the 23rd...The only real information we have is that you lost a needle. We don't even know if that was in a haystack.

Now toss in an engine that will be out of fuel, potentially damaged sail rigging, and no rudder. You are REALLY cutting your odds from slim to none by hiding information. PMing bits and pieces to a few folks isn't likely to help, especially if all you are sharing is that position from the 23rd. I suggest, again, that if you have any real wish to recover your boat, you rethink the way you are not looking for it.

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Chris WR.

[Prairie Chicken]

That would mean you need a twin engine plane to have a chance to actually be able to do any searching once 250NM out from St. Martin. Even with zero wind conditions these planes typically have about 4 hour endurance, at around 180 to 190 kn speeds at best (some slower, only few faster), unless equipped with extra long range tanks. That means with zero winds you spent about 1 hour 20 minutes to reach your 250NM spot, giving you less than one hour to spend actually searching. Pilot will of course want to leave a required fuel reserve for a safe return. Now, there is no such thing as 'zero wind' in real life so the actual figures will be less than above, as you will also have to return, unless there is another airport available nearer. Pilot would naturally make the required calculations before flight. I don't think there are many single engine planes capable of doing this, unless you go turbine and or much more expensive. The aircraft owner/operator may have policy/insurance restriction on flying over open water.

If I was you I would call every local operator and ask them if they can take you out 250nm and search there for about one hour.

Try google St Martin aircraft rental, flight training, fbo, charter, etc. I'm sure you will find someone who at least knows whom to contact.

If you find a multi operator with extra long range tanks you might be able to spend maybe up to 2 hours more in the air.

You wouldn't need, or even want a twin. Even a small single such as a C172 could do it. They'd have an endurance of about 5 hours; with long range tanks (which aren't unusual) perhaps 6. I'm going from memory here & not checking a manual, but I doubt I'm far off. IF the search area is 250 nm out, you've got a 2 hr transit, + :45 reserve; say 3:00 total. Then you reach the search area and throttle back to max endurance as you don't want to search fast. Depends on the type of a/c, but 90 kts. would be reasonable for a light single. Optimum a 4-place a/c with pilot, nav (to plot & ensure the pilot flies the planned grid), & two spotters in the back. If the a/c had only an endurance of 5 hours, that's still likely beyond the efficiency of the spotters capacity to concentrate.

I might add, flying a SE over open ocean is not an attractive idea to any pilot. It's dangerous, and many simply wouldn't undertake such a mission.

It's a big ocean. You really would need some idea where to start looking.

Good luck.

[philippd]

That SAT phone is not on the vessel any longer, is it?

If it would still be on stand-by it could possibly be used to get a location fix (remember analysis of MH370 sat-phone pings?)

[ontherocks83]

Originally Posted by Scout 30

Has that actually ever happened?

One of the towing companies, can't remember if it was sea tow or another got a lot of flak years ago for responding to tow calls, then convincing everyone on board to come on to the towing vessel for safety reasons and after the captain was off his ship they would claim salvage being that the boat was abandoned.

[ErikFinn]

Originally Posted by Prairie Chicken

You wouldn't need, or even want a twin. Even a small single such as a C172 could do it. They'd have an endurance of about 5 hours; with long range tanks (which aren't unusual) perhaps 6. I'm going from memory here & not checking a manual, but I doubt I'm far off. IF the search area is 250 nm out, you've got a 2 hr transit, + :45 reserve; say 3:00 total. Then you reach the search area and throttle back to max endurance as you don't want to search fast. Depends on the type of a/c, but 90 kts. would be reasonable for a light single. Optimum a 4-place a/c with pilot, nav (to plot & ensure the pilot flies the planned grid), & two spotters in the back. If the a/c had only an endurance of 5 hours, that's still likely beyond the efficiency of the spotters capacity to concentrate.

I might add, flying a SE over open ocean is not an attractive idea to any pilot. It's dangerous, and many simply wouldn't undertake such a mission.

It's a big ocean. You really would need some idea where to start looking.

Good luck.

Just gotta love it when folks try to teach a commercial pilot and a flight instructor how to fly. C172's true airspeed would be around 107 knots at 65% power mixture leaned for best economy. Take into account the winds aloft say 20 knots headwind your ground speed would be less than 90 knots, taking you about 3 hours to reach the 250NM spot, with fuel and time used for taxiing, take off and climb. 20 knots head winds is prob wayy too modest an estimation, the winds might be 40 knots, depending on the wind component you might have 30 knots or more headwind component, giving you a ground speed of 80 knots max, meaning with taxi, take off and climb well over 3 hours to the spot. Try go 75% power and your fuel consumption will eat any benefits gained from increased speed. Go 55% and it might take you 4 hours to reach the spot. And no, you can not have tailwinds both ways. Any estimation or actual flight planning must be rounded to the safe side, so there's no need to wonder 100 NM off coast why the engine suddenly stopped. There is no sane pilot who would take a standard single engine C172 250NM to the open sea. A C172RG or another complex SE with retractable landing gear, a variable pitch prop, and a stronger engine might do it if it had long range tanks actually giving you some time spent searching as well. But probably prohibited by the insurance company over open sea.
Anyways, the boat apparently is not anywhere near the previously mentioned 250NM spot anymore, but somewhere much much further. Thus this discussion is rendered useless for the OP.

[Tricolor]

maybe rent it on an island more close to expected location of the yacht

Sent from my GT-I8190L using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[MarkJ]

AWW,

I will be back in St Martin by 1pm. Call me on +1721 5814774 and we can meet this afternoon.


Mark

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

AWW,

I will be back in St Martin by 1pm. Call me on +1721 5814774 and we can meet this afternoon.


Mark

Good man..!!

[Prairie Chicken]

Originally Posted by Chris WR

Have followed your troubles and just had a thought about getting the word to the superyachts.

From my time as captain I remember the young crew were often on social media and The Crew Report has a facebook page, regularly updated which I know a lot of the young (and more senior) crew look at regularly.

May be worth contacting them (via their page) and asking if they could post your story and a brief request for help.

Just thought, hope it helps.

Thinking of you..

That sounds like a helpful idea! And welcome aboard Cris WR.

[Scout 30]

With no lives in jeopardy an aerial search with small planes is clearly too dangerous to make sense. At this point, even if the OP makes all of the information he has known, no Salvor would undertake a search. I think it's near time for the OP to start making plans that don't include the boat. Even if the boat turns up eventually it will in all likelihood end up being a salvage meaning it will cost a lot to get her back. If the OP has enough money to pay a Salvor he has enough money to buy another boat now and resume his journey. This may be premature but everyday spent waiting is a drain on resources. It's nice of people on this thread to be hopeful & positive but encouraging the OP to throw good money after bad may not be in the OP's best interests.

[a64pilot]

Our C-210 L has 90 gls useable in factory tanks, the Flint tip tanks take it 120 useable.
I can comfortably run her lean of peak and get down to about 12 GPH and maybe 140 kts or so, that gives 10 hours until exhaustion, but its not fuel range that is the issue, its over water that is and likely at an altitude that you can't reach center.
I have ferried aircraft over oceans on deliveries before, its not something to be taken lightly.
I do not do it anymore, the risk just isn't justified

[MarkJ]

Does that include any of the light planes that operate in the islands?
For example most of the islands have light planes of the Cessna single engine 'pleasure' type. Sent they used to fly over water?

(Not that I am recommending any flying for this thread!)