Urgent help needed to recover abandoned yacht NW Barbados

[DumnMad]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

My thoughts:

A) No mention has been made on VHF by MRCC Fort De France or anyone else, in the last week.

B) I doubt an air search is a useful way of spending money.

C) All islands are visible from each other. For example from Sentry Hill, St Martin you can see 6 countries.

C1) Boat w main up & no rudder is easy to spot as it will be coming up to the wind, stalling, falling off or some unnatural movement.

D) Fishermen are out every day of the week from all islands.

E) $10k to an aircraft owner is bugger all, but to a local fisherman it's a new house or boat or both.

I suggest you work with the fishermen of all the islands clearly offering money for a sighting and a max reward for a tow in. Start by shelling out real $50 notes so people take you seriously.

The islands form a net. Catch your boat in it.

AWW, I think Mark's suggestions are brilliant and worth a follow-up.
I also love Alex's generous offer

[allwentwrong]

To sail on the geni alone, if only it was that easy. Tried that, didn't work. Nothing would work in those conditions.

[Suijin]

I think hellosailor did a good job of snapping us back to reality. You're looking for a needle in a very big haystack.

But that does not mean give up and go home, it means adjusting your approach to pursue what gives the best chance of realistically getting your boat back, at all, and that's essentially facilitating its salvage. I'm not super familiar with salvage law but I believe that it offers the possibility of getting your boat back, even if the cost is very high, versus a complete loss. Salvage compensation is based on a number of factors and it is not automatically equal to the full value of the boat and it's contents.

I think Mark nailed an honestly workable approach, which is using the net of islands (and sailors). That would cause you to reverse course and publicize the identity of the boat, it's last known position, and your analysis of it's possible drift path.

[Davidhoy]

Originally Posted by allwentwrong

Cheers David happy new year to you [emoji482]

If you locate the boat and need crew to help bring her in, I'll fly down and help, just say the word...

[Suijin]

Losing steerage is probably the one thing that I worry about offshore more than anything else for the simple fact that pretty much any backup solution is a crapshoot at best.

International rules for offshore racing stipulate that participants must design and satisfactorily test a solution for steering the boat in the event of rudder loss or malfunction. Most try the warps and buckets off the stern, usually in calm water and call it done.

The only jury rigged solution that I've found that works, and even then it's marginal, is a Galerider on 15' of chain, to a bridle, run both sides to midship pulleys and back to winches. It's a total bear to manage but it does gives you some semblance of control.

Some build back up emergency rudders, which is obviously the preferred route. Some wind vane manufacturers sell emergency rudder kits for their vanes.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by allwentwrong

To sail on the geni alone, if only it was that easy. Tried that, didn't work. Nothing would work in those conditions.

Just saying what worked for me when my Ram jammed solid.. got me close enough to Sardinia (Cagliari Bay) to get a tow into a marina.

[Kemp]

How about renting long range surveillance UAV? Something like this https://uavsystemsinternational.com/...illance-drone/

[daw_two]

allwentwrong.

I'm in Saint-Martin on vacation until Friday. How can I help? Sent you a PM

[hellosailor]

allwent-

I didn't suggest giving up. I thought I made it clear that in my point of view, your approach is seriously flawed, and you are taking a course of action that is going to lower your odds of recovery further every day.

That doesn't mean give it, it means RECONSIDER THE APPROACH and if your numbers add up a different way, sure, keep doing what you are doing. After all, you have key information that none of us have.

But let's assume (rashly) that your boat might be moving at five knots, between current and windage or possible sailing, combined. Five knots, 24 hours per day, ten days, right? It may have traveled 1000 miles by now, anywhere in (let's be optimistic) a 45 degree cone of movement. That means it could be anyplace at the end of that cone (sector) along a line a thousand miles long! And if you call that too pessimistic and cut the speed in half, it could still be anywhere on a line 500 miles long.

It would take a light aircraft four hours just to fly that line ONCE, four more hours to step up/down a grid ladder just once and make a second pass ten miles over. Now add perhaps two hours each way from a base, and if you can find a light aircraft with a 12-hour endurance, it still can make only two passes in a day. At which point it has to land someplace, and on the next day? The boat may have moved so much that it has to just repeat the last day's work.

Every day that you have delayed, every day that you have concealed the position, whether that was right or wrong doesn't matter. What matters is that the search area keeps expanding geometrically, and that the more you conceal, the more you delay, the exponentially harder any attempt at locating the boat will be.

Perhaps my logic is wrong on that, but as I said, all the professional SAR people say the same thing. Time is of the essence, and you've already burned ten days of that. As your boat gets closer to other islands (optimistic) it also has a higher chance of either wrecking on one, getting run down at night by shipping (truth be told, the big ships sometimes just don't look out), or being found by a salvor in any case.

Sorry if that's not what you want to hear, but I can't see any way that your approach has been one that is likely to recover your boat. It just increases the odds that someone else will get it, afloat or otherwise.



As to that other question of how a boat loses a rudder...a rudder is "moving parts below the waterline" and surprisingly fragile. Most still are made with stainless steel rudder posts and iron armatures, both unsuitable for exposure to salt water. Protected by a fiberglass shell, sure, but all it takes is one bump (hobbyhorsing in a storm while on a mooring or anchored) or one docking/anchoring where the tide unexpectedly ran out, or one bump while being hauled, and the rudder sat on the bottom, and even the best of frp can develop a hairline crack that admits water. Ten years later, the weakened metal or frp takes a side load from a wave and it is gone.

Other forum members have had the same rude surprise.

[allwentwrong]

All good points
All the genuine people that want to help have pm'd me, then I have shared the positions to them.

[allwentwrong]

I know the longer I leave it the bigger the search area becomes. I wanted to go straight back out as soon as we reached shore. I couldn't find anyone that was willing to take me out tho

[hellosailor]

Your AIS tracker must be better than the freeware ones, which seem to show your boat (things stay in the internet forever) mainly on December 5th, one sporadic position from one service on the 23rd but that one literally came and went. I'm not surprised that no one wanted to take you back out, bearing in mind that the weather was already bashing you around when you were taken off. Maybe you'll get lucky and the boat will gently go aground on Aruba, and some nice constable will call to ask you to please remove it from his beach.

[Bleemus]

I probably would have let the ground tackle out with as much scope as possible. Would slow the drift and if it does get near land it may just set the anchor before it hits rocks. A long shot but worth it IMHO.

[Scout 30]

Originally Posted by Bleemus

I probably would have let the ground tackle out with as much scope as possible. Would slow the drift and if it does get near land it may just set the anchor before it hits rocks. A long shot but worth it IMHO.

I've never heard of doing that before but it's actually an interesting idea. Basically a drogue off the bow that would keep you off the beach. Maybe heave to at the same time.

Personally I think running something like a Jordan Series Drogue off the stern with the sails down & the helm lashed is probably the safest way to leave the boat but it is true that she'd be easier to spot with them up.

[a64pilot]

At lot of Mon morning quarter backing, but the rest of us do learn from that.
The anchor thing, I had not though of it myself, but as I have 900' on board, 600' rope and 300' chain, that is an idea if I ever had to leave.
This thread has me thinking also that a Delorme inreach would be an asset, another Mon morning quarterback idea.