Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 05-11-2024, 13:11   #46
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: Alabama
Boat: Pearson 385
Posts: 111
Re: Unattended diesel heaters

Quote:
Originally Posted by newhaul View Post
Mike if you need to reprime it consider looking at the fuel system between the pump and the furnace. I had to go for just over a year without r7nning mine and it started instantly like it was supposed to . ( dealing with wife's cancer .) All is good now cancer free . )

I actually don't run it for days on end I run it a couple hours in the morning and a couple hours every evening .
Warm clothes and baking bread keep me warm . A goose down comforter does the job while I sleep

Newhall,
Glad to read of your wife's recovery. Cancer is a b@$t@rd.

I suspect my prime loss over 9 months is due to my choice of fuel delivery design.
Pump is only about 24" from heater. I chose to use an outboard fuel tank with quick disconnect to feed the heater. This allows me to easily remove the fuel tank to the dock or aft deck to refuel, so any spills are easy to deal with, plus it allows me to keep my heat fuel supply isolated from engine supply. Tank is slightly below pump.

The fuel is present in the line from pump to heater, and it will start, but run out as the line from tank to pump has a small air bubble.
If I just give the primer bulb a couple of squeezes first, no problem. I believe the QD fitting isn't completely airtight over 9 months.
I keep the remote next to our bed in the aft cabin, so we can start the heater without even getting up. Takes the chill off quite quickly. The heat from the morning percolator finishes the job for the morning...
MWGDVC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2024, 13:17   #47
Senior Cruiser
 
newhaul's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: puget sound washington
Boat: 1968 Islander bahama 24 hull 182, 1963 columbia 29 defender. hull # 60
Posts: 13,090
Re: Unattended diesel heaters

Quote:
Originally Posted by MWGDVC View Post
Newhall,
Glad to read of your wife's recovery. Cancer is a b@$t@rd.

I suspect my prime loss over 9 months is due to my choice of fuel delivery design.
Pump is only about 24" from heater. I chose to use an outboard fuel tank with quick disconnect to feed the heater. This allows me to easily remove the fuel tank to the dock or aft deck to refuel, so any spills are easy to deal with, plus it allows me to keep my heat fuel supply isolated from engine supply. Tank is slightly below pump.

The fuel is present in the line from pump to heater, and it will start, but run out as the line from tank to pump has a small air bubble.
If I just give the primer bulb a couple of squeezes first, no problem. I believe the QD fitting isn't completely airtight over 9 months.
I keep the remote next to our bed in the aft cabin, so we can start the heater without even getting up. Takes the chill off quite quickly. The heat from the morning percolator finishes the job for the morning...
Install a small cheap fuel transfer pump from the main after the racer to the furnace day tank . That's what I do on my boat.
__________________
Non illigitamus carborundum
newhaul is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2024, 07:17   #48
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 140
Re: Unattended diesel heaters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chotu View Post
That picture is great marketing but it’s completely incorrect.

It can’t produce anything but fresh, warm air out the hot air outlet. No fire, no smoke. Nothing.

BUT… it could cause an electrical fire
.....also, it could output nothing like 8000W !
SpiritofGlenans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2024, 07:26   #49
Registered User
 
Chotu's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2018
Boat: 50ft Custom Fast Catamaran
Posts: 12,229
Re: Unattended diesel heaters

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpiritofGlenans View Post
.....also, it could output nothing like 8000W !
True.

The 8kw chinese ones are actually 5kw heaters that have a higher fan speed and a bit more diesel added to the burn, but not enough to put out 8kw

The 5kw and 2kw versions are accurate
Chotu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2024, 08:05   #50
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2024
Location: Seychelles is vessel base
Boat: Leopard 51 PowerCat
Posts: 300
Re: Unattended diesel heaters

Firstly, thank heavens I boat in the tropics.

Secondly, as a stats and operations person, what strikes me is the inconsistency of the logic of saying you’ll trust a heater for a few hours but not for days. When you do that you are admitting it might fail, but hedging your bet by saying it won’t fail in X period - which has no foundation.

The right answer is if you can’t trust it for a week you also can’t trust it overnight or while you sit in the pub.

I have zero knowledge of these heaters or which are as reliable enough to leave on for weeks as hours.
Johan Leopard51 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2024, 08:13   #51
Registered User
 
Chotu's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2018
Boat: 50ft Custom Fast Catamaran
Posts: 12,229
Re: Unattended diesel heaters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johan Leopard51 View Post
Firstly, thank heavens I boat in the tropics.

Secondly, as a stats and operations person, what strikes me is the inconsistency of the logic of saying you’ll trust a heater for a few hours but not for days. When you do that you are admitting it might fail, but hedging your bet by saying it won’t fail in X period - which has no foundation.

The right answer is if you can’t trust it for a week you also can’t trust it overnight or while you sit in the pub.

I have zero knowledge of these heaters or which are as reliable enough to leave on for weeks as hours.

I don’t think it’s that. It’s attended versus unattended.

when I leave the boat, the systems that can start a fire that I can turn off, I turn off. that means everything electrical that I am able to turn off, I turn off.

the current boat doesn’t have anywhere for water ingress to happen, but on old boats, I used to close the seacocks when I left it as well.

when I am on the boat, if there is a fire or a leak, I can take care of it before it becomes a big problem. If I am not on the boat, that small problem will multiply very quickly and destroy the boat.

that’s why at least I think this way.

I have three diesel heaters. They’re getting close to 4000 hours on each right now. They have proven their reliability and my install has proven safe and reliable. However, I am not leaving them running when I’m not on the boat, even though i trust them to run another 4000 hours
Chotu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2024, 08:17   #52
Senior Cruiser
 
newhaul's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: puget sound washington
Boat: 1968 Islander bahama 24 hull 182, 1963 columbia 29 defender. hull # 60
Posts: 13,090
Re: Unattended diesel heaters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chotu View Post
True.

The 8kw chinese ones are actually 5kw heaters that have a higher fan speed and a bit more diesel added to the burn, but not enough to put out 8kw

The 5kw and 2kw versions are accurate
You want a true 8kw unit then you install a planar 8D
They are designed to heat the T72 Russian main battle tank .
I have installed several on 50 to 65 ft smudge pots and they all are extremely happy.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Screenshot_20241106_071628_Photos.jpg
Views:	17
Size:	88.4 KB
ID:	295774  
__________________
Non illigitamus carborundum
newhaul is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2024, 08:21   #53
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: PNW Puget Sound
Boat: 1955 G L Watson 40' Yawl
Posts: 417
Re: Unattended diesel heaters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johan Leopard51 View Post
Firstly, thank heavens I boat in the tropics.

Secondly, as a stats and operations person, what strikes me is the inconsistency of the logic of saying you’ll trust a heater for a few hours but not for days. When you do that you are admitting it might fail, but hedging your bet by saying it won’t fail in X period - which has no foundation.

The right answer is if you can’t trust it for a week you also can’t trust it overnight or while you sit in the pub.

I have zero knowledge of these heaters or which are as reliable enough to leave on for weeks as hours.
Interesting logic...no knowledge of diesel heaters, but presenting an opinion based on no knowledge.
Being onboard a vessel and monitoring systems, even with short 1-2 hour absence is a LONG way from a week or more of unattended operation.
Sailing55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2024, 08:24   #54
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: PNW Puget Sound
Boat: 1955 G L Watson 40' Yawl
Posts: 417
Re: Unattended diesel heaters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chotu View Post
I don’t think it’s that. It’s attended versus unattended.

when I leave the boat, the systems that can start a fire that I can turn off, I turn off. that means everything electrical that I am able to turn off, I turn off.

the current boat doesn’t have anywhere for water ingress to happen, but on old boats, I used to close the seacocks when I left it as well.

when I am on the boat, if there is a fire or a leak, I can take care of it before it becomes a big problem. If I am not on the boat, that small problem will multiply very quickly and destroy the boat.

that’s why at least I think this way.

I have three diesel heaters. They’re getting close to 4000 hours on each right now. They have proven their reliability and my install has proven safe and reliable. However, I am not leaving them running when I’m not on the boat, even though i trust them to run another 4000 hours
Here is the proper logic on this topic. Being on board and monitoring systems is simply good seamanship. Boats are NOT houses and the systems operate in completely different environments.
Sailing55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2024, 09:30   #55
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2024
Location: Seychelles is vessel base
Boat: Leopard 51 PowerCat
Posts: 300
Re: Unattended diesel heaters

Maybe I didn’t explain myself well. Something is either safe to leave unattended, or not. Qualifying it by safe for hour/overnight/week period is in ops terms, not valid.

I leave my large (land-based) lifepo4 system unattended every night and I can leave it unattended for a year, because it has fail-safes. I also leave my factory every night, in the hands of a sprinkler system that is 99.99% certain to intervene.
Johan Leopard51 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2024, 09:42   #56
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: Alabama
Boat: Pearson 385
Posts: 111
Re: Unattended diesel heaters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johan Leopard51 View Post
Maybe I didn’t explain myself well. Something is either safe to leave unattended, or not. Qualifying it by safe for hour/overnight/week period is in ops terms, not valid.

I leave my large (land-based) lifepo4 system unattended every night and I can leave it unattended for a year, because it has fail-safes. I also leave my factory every night, in the hands of a sprinkler system that is 99.99% certain to intervene.

Johan,
Do you close all your seacocks every time you leave the boat to, let's say, use a land based toilet at a marina?
How about if you are taking a week long business trip away from the boat?
MWGDVC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2024, 09:54   #57
Registered User
 
Chotu's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2018
Boat: 50ft Custom Fast Catamaran
Posts: 12,229
Re: Unattended diesel heaters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johan Leopard51 View Post
Maybe I didn’t explain myself well. Something is either safe to leave unattended, or not. Qualifying it by safe for hour/overnight/week period is in ops terms, not valid.

I leave my large (land-based) lifepo4 system unattended every night and I can leave it unattended for a year, because it has fail-safes. I also leave my factory every night, in the hands of a sprinkler system that is 99.99% certain to intervene.
I think ops terms need to be redefined then. they fail to grasp the difference between systems with Failsafes, and systems without failsafes.

A diesel heater is a system without a failsafe. We do not have sprinkler systems aboard our boats. A boat electrical system is a system without failsafes. We do not have a sprinkler system aboard the boat for that either.We have fuses, breakers that SHOULD work but maybe they don’t. Breakers can fuse together, etc

Seacocks and all of the plumbing that goes along with them is a system without Fail safes. It sort of has one. A bilge pump. But that’s not going to last forever when you are gone for a month and water is pouring in.

I think it is difficult to apply your industry standard thinking to boats. It’s totally different situation.
Chotu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2024, 09:55   #58
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Rochester, NY
Boat: Chris Craft 381 Catalina
Posts: 6,972
Re: Unattended diesel heaters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johan Leopard51 View Post
Maybe I didn’t explain myself well. Something is either safe to leave unattended, or not. Qualifying it by safe for hour/overnight/week period is in ops terms, not valid.

I leave my large (land-based) lifepo4 system unattended every night and I can leave it unattended for a year, because it has fail-safes. I also leave my factory every night, in the hands of a sprinkler system that is 99.99% certain to intervene.
That is absolutely not the case. There are plenty of systems that don't have the redundancy, monitoring, etc. to run safely unattended for an indefinite period. The concern isn't around sudden, catastrophic failures, but slow failures. If you've done risk analysis on systems before, then you'd understand that plenty of non-immediate problems can develop where a fault may appear that is minor at first, but gets worse, so after a few days it might become a big problem.

The longer the system is left unattended, the more time a fault has to escalate between when it starts and when it's detected. So the longer the unattended runtime, the better monitoring, etc. a system needs.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chotu View Post
I think ops terms need to be redefined then. they fail to grasp the difference between systems with Failsafes, and systems without failsafes.

A diesel heater is a system without a failsafe. We do not have sprinkler systems aboard our boats. A boat electrical system is a system without failsafes. We do not have a sprinkler system aboard the boat for that either.We have fuses, breakers that SHOULD work but maybe they don’t. Breakers can fuse together, etc

Seacocks and all of the plumbing that goes along with them is a system without Fail safes. It sort of has one. A bilge pump. But that’s not going to last forever when you are gone for a month and water is pouring in.

I think it is difficult to apply your industry standard thinking to boats. It’s totally different situation.
I think that sums it up quite nicely. Looking at the plumbing failure example, big bilge pumps may keep up with a worst case hose failure, but not indefinitely. So the longer the time you may have between the failure and you knowing and being able to close the seacock, the higher the risk of it sinking the boat (as there's more risk of a bilge pump clogging, failing, or the batteries becoming depleted the longer the pumps run).
rslifkin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2024, 10:15   #59
Senior Cruiser
 
GordMay's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 51,785
Images: 241
Re: Unattended diesel heaters

It’s very rare that a defibrillator fails.
But, when it happens, no one is shocked.
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2024, 10:27   #60
Senior Cruiser
 
newhaul's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: puget sound washington
Boat: 1968 Islander bahama 24 hull 182, 1963 columbia 29 defender. hull # 60
Posts: 13,090
Re: Unattended diesel heaters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chotu View Post
I think ops terms need to be redefined then. they fail to grasp the difference between systems with Failsafes, and systems without failsafes.

A diesel heater is a system without a failsafe. We do not have sprinkler systems aboard our boats. A boat electrical system is a system without failsafes. We do not have a sprinkler system aboard the boat for that either.We have fuses, breakers that SHOULD work but maybe they don’t. Breakers can fuse together, etc

Seacocks and all of the plumbing that goes along with them is a system without Fail safes. It sort of has one. A bilge pump. But that’s not going to last forever when you are gone for a month and water is pouring in.

I think it is difficult to apply your industry standard thinking to boats. It’s totally different situation.
Lets break down all the incorrect information here.
Diesel furnaces have failsafe thermal switches the unit get to hot and the failsafe shuts everything down.
A boats electrical system has fuses and breakers .
A sprinkler system no however we do have available fairly cheap automatic mechanically deployed fire suppression systems.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...2Y5S5UYO&psc=1
__________________
Non illigitamus carborundum
newhaul is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
diesel, heater

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
We have propane heaters. Why no gasoline/petrol heaters? Chotu Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 132 19-10-2022 11:48
Insurance and Unattended Anchoring thinwater Anchoring & Mooring 5 21-07-2009 12:26
Best arrangements for leaving boat unattended in foreign ports??? Lightfin General Sailing Forum 4 19-02-2008 21:53
safe pleace leave the boat unattended phorvati Atlantic & the Caribbean 11 05-02-2007 23:02

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:45.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.