Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 30-10-2024, 13:07   #16
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: San Francisco
Boat: Morgan 382
Posts: 3,649
Re: Unattended diesel heaters

I don't have any experience with a diesel heater, but surely they are safer than portable electric heaters?
__________________
-Warren
wholybee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-10-2024, 13:41   #17
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: PNW
Boat: 35 Ft. cutter, custom
Posts: 2,936
Re: Unattended diesel heaters

Quote:
Originally Posted by SailingHarmonie View Post
This discussion kind of begs the question: If there is an appliance, or even just a power circuit, you would not trust to leave running while you were not on the boat, how could you possibly leave it running while you were asleep?

If you have ever seen how fast a boat fire spreads, planning on waking up in time to do anything, including getting out, is very unrealistic.

It seems to me that any appliance that can not be trusted when I am not present in body, can not be trusted while I sleep, and should just never be on the boat in the first place.
^This.
Some friends that live in Alaska have told me it's quite common for those who have gravity fed Dickinson stoves to leave them running basically for 24/7, weeks at a time, shutting them down only when cleaning is necessary.
They, (and the Refleks,) are the only devices I have any faith in to leave on if I'm off the boat or asleep.
Note: I said "gravity" fed, not installations that use those little electric pumps to feed them.
__________________
Beginning to Prepare to Commence
Bowdrie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-10-2024, 13:59   #18
Registered User
 
wrwakefield's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Meandering about the Gulf of Alaska coast [NNE Pacific]— where the internet doesn't always shine... [Even Elon's...] Homeport: Wrangell Island
Boat: Nauticat 43 [S&S Staysail Ketch]
Posts: 1,797
Re: Unattended diesel heaters

Quote:
Originally Posted by wholybee View Post
I don't have any experience with a diesel heater, but surely they are safer than portable electric heaters?
Hi Warren,

They are- generally speaking. It is all about the quality of the unit [including age] and its installation.

The bulkhead mounted and stand-alone stove/oven diesel units with an external flue are mostly similar to a small wood stove. [Note: All with enclosed flames.]

Here is ours, and we love it [who doesn’t like a ‘fireplace’ in cool weather?]



I’ve had these on my past several boats spanning several decades in cool climates and they have been very reliable.

It is as reliable as an old manual shift vehicle without synchromesh gearing; you have to know how to double-clutch. [i.e., the carburetors on this type of heater are very primitive and take a while to master.]

Here is my write-up re: installing and using/ tuning/ trusting/ mastering this type of heater:

https://svdenalirosenc43.blogspot.co...-tips-for.html

The mainstream [e.g., Wobasto, Espar, etc.; I’m excluding foreign clones here as I have no personal experience with them…] forced air [and hydronic] diesel heaters are very safe and reliable, perhaps because they are ubiquitous in the trucking industry. [e.g., manufacturing volume and industry/governmental safety requirements.] I frankly wouldn’t hesitate to leave ours on if away from the boat for months during the cold seasons…

In case this is useful.

Cheers, Bill
__________________
SV Denali Rose
Learning every day- and sharing if I can.
wrwakefield is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-10-2024, 21:52   #19
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 872
Re: Unattended diesel heaters

Personally, I think the only diesel heaters that can be safely left unattended are drip fed heaters such as the Reflex. These have no electrical components such as fans or solenoid's to fail.

I would agree with this. Certainly with a well-maintained unit that has been operating reliably.
mako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-10-2024, 03:46   #20
Senior Cruiser
 
GordMay's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 51,788
Images: 241
Re: Unattended diesel heaters

“NFPA 1: A Summary of Requirements for Heating Appliances” ~ by Kristin Bigda, for NFPA
https://www.nfpa.org/news-blogs-and-...irecodefridays
Quote:
“... The installation of most stationary liquid fuel-burning appliances must comply with NFPA 1 as well as NFPA 31, Standard for the Installation of Oil-Burning Equipment. NFPA 31 is a standard for the safe, efficient design and installation of heating appliances that use a liquid fuel, typically No. 2 heating oil, but also lighter fuels, such as kerosene and diesel fuel, and heavier fuels, such as No. 4 fuel oil. NFPA 31 applies to the installation of these systems in residential, commercial, and industrial occupancies...”
NFPA 31, Standard for the Installation of Oil-Burning Equipment”
https://fcpros.com/wp-content/upload...0-FR310.10.pdf

NFPA 1: Requirements for Portable Electric Heaters and Other Heating Appliances
https://edufire.ir/storage/Library/E...01-HB-2018.pdf
https://codelibrary.amlegal.com/code...d/0-0-0-114028
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 31-10-2024, 21:24   #21
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: PNW Puget Sound
Boat: 1955 G L Watson 40' Yawl
Posts: 417
Re: Unattended diesel heaters

Thanks for the feedback folks...sometimes I feel that I am too critical of others.
As stated I have a pot type vented diesel heater that I leave running all the time except when leaving the boat unattended for more than an hour. Not everone agrees that sleeping with the heater running is a good idea, but as long as the fuel is at room temp. and the viscosity of same is stabilized there is little that can go wrong other than human error. There are many risks in this lifestyle, and my heater is one of the lesser ones. I went so far as to have a two gallon gravity fed day tank on deck that must be manually filled every two days, just in case I was injured on shore or unable to return to the boat fir some reason.
It just seems to me however, that leaving a relatively complicated, electronic dependent diesel fired heater running and cycling for days/weeks at a time unattended in a marina is downright dangerous, especially connected to main fuel tanks.
Again, thanks for the opinions...
Sailing55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2024, 06:50   #22
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Rochester, NY
Boat: Chris Craft 381 Catalina
Posts: 6,972
Re: Unattended diesel heaters

A well designed diesel heater (even an electronically controlled fancy one) shouldn't be any more dangerous than the furnace in a house. And those certainly get left unattended on a regular basis, generally without issue (including oil burning furnaces which are basically burning diesel).

Some of the cheap or compact heaters may not be as well designed, but any good quality heater with a good track record of use in the market wouldn't worry me much. I wouldn't want to leave one unattended for weeks or anything, but shorter periods of unattended operation should be fine.
rslifkin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2024, 06:59   #23
Registered User
 
Chotu's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2018
Boat: 50ft Custom Fast Catamaran
Posts: 12,229
Re: Unattended diesel heaters

Quote:
Originally Posted by rslifkin View Post
A well designed diesel heater (even an electronically controlled fancy one) shouldn't be any more dangerous than the furnace in a house. And those certainly get left unattended on a regular basis, generally without issue (including oil burning furnaces which are basically burning diesel).

Some of the cheap or compact heaters may not be as well designed, but any good quality heater with a good track record of use in the market wouldn't worry me much. I wouldn't want to leave one unattended for weeks or anything, but shorter periods of unattended operation should be fine.

that’s a pretty good point, actually.

these electronic diesel heaters are essentially the exact same thing as a home furnace.

I guess I’m one of those people that just doesn’t like risk when it comes to unattended boats. For example, even going ashore in a monohull, I close every seacock. That’s just to go get provisions. I also power down every circuit that is not necessary. I leave on a refrigerator and that’s about it.

on the current boat, I leave a refrigerator and freezer on as well as the solar charging system. The anchor light must remained powered too. Everything else is off when I leave. No seacocks so at least i don’t have to do that anymore
Chotu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2024, 07:07   #24
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Rochester, NY
Boat: Chris Craft 381 Catalina
Posts: 6,972
Re: Unattended diesel heaters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chotu View Post
that’s a pretty good point, actually.

these electronic diesel heaters are essentially the exact same thing as a home furnace.

I guess I’m one of those people that just doesn’t like risk when it comes to unattended boats. For example, even going ashore in a monohull, I close every seacock. That’s just to go get provisions. I also power down every circuit that is not necessary. I leave on a refrigerator and that’s about it.

on the current boat, I leave a refrigerator and freezer on as well as the solar charging system. The anchor light must remained powered too. Everything else is off when I leave. No seacocks so at least i don’t have to do that anymore
That's the common sailor paranoia. It's not just you, I see it a lot with sailors (but rarely with powerboaters). With a lot of those systems, I figure if it's not good enough for me to trust it unattended for a day or 2 then why should I trust it when I'm on the boat and possibly sleeping? If I don't feel like I can trust it, the systems need to be improved to the point where I can trust them. Plus some remote monitoring (temperature in a few places, power status, and high water alarm) helps with comfort level on certain things. Plus, when we're traveling we have the dog with us, so depending on why we're going ashore he may be with us or he may stay on the boat. Which means we may need to leave some fans on, and I need to be able to trust that the boat is safe for the dog for a couple of hours.

On my own boat, outside of the macerator discharge that's kept closed I rarely close a seacock during the season unless I'm leaving the boat for an extended period. Most systems get used often enough and are trustworthy enough that I'm comfortable with leaving them open. And I typically leave an HVAC unit running to have some temperature / humidity control when the boat is in its home slip with shore power.

This kind of trust is also why I'm a fan of huge bilge pumping capacity. My bilge pumps are big enough that if an A/C hose ruptures or something it's going to make a mess, but it won't come anywhere close to sinking the boat (or even max out pumping capacity). About the only way the pumps would be at their limit is if one of the engine water intakes were sheared off flush with the hull or a prop shaft were removed (or a rudder and rudder port assembly snapped off flush). Any single easier to imagine failure is within the real-world pumping capacity available, meaning there's some time to find out about the problem and do something about it.
rslifkin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2024, 07:44   #25
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 64
Re: Unattended diesel heaters

The images in post #5 and #13 are from Amazon and Ebay listings. I'm thinking the flames are intended to show lots of heat. They are not warnings of fire risk.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	heater flames.jpg
Views:	10
Size:	443.8 KB
ID:	295596  
Portage_bay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2024, 08:00   #26
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: PNW Puget Sound
Boat: 1955 G L Watson 40' Yawl
Posts: 417
Re: Unattended diesel heaters

Just one last thought: while someone is sitting comfortably at home watching movies or sleeping while their electronic heater is pumping diesel fuel to an electronically controlled fire on an unattended boat, the risk is not confined to your boat alone...
There are two systems that seem to cause the most trouble on boats in my long experience: refrigeration and electronic diesel heaters.
Not to mention that on boats every new system or convenience is quite often installed by a different person with his/her own ideas about how to shoehorn hoses, wiring, valves, ducting, fuel lines, fuel pumps, and electronics into confined, wet spaces. What could possibly go wrong?
We all have our opinions shaped by our life experiences...it's interesting to read other folks thoughts.
Sailing55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2024, 10:39   #27
Senior Cruiser
 
newhaul's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: puget sound washington
Boat: 1968 Islander bahama 24 hull 182, 1963 columbia 29 defender. hull # 60
Posts: 13,090
Re: Unattended diesel heaters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailing55 View Post
Just one last thought: while someone is sitting comfortably at home watching movies or sleeping while their electronic heater is pumping diesel fuel to an electronically controlled fire on an unattended boat, the risk is not confined to your boat alone...
There are two systems that seem to cause the most trouble on boats in my long experience: refrigeration and electronic diesel heaters.
Not to mention that on boats every new system or convenience is quite often installed by a different person with his/her own ideas about how to shoehorn hoses, wiring, valves, ducting, fuel lines, fuel pumps, and electronics into confined, wet spaces. What could possibly go wrong?
We all have our opinions shaped by our life experiences...it's interesting to read other folks thoughts.
Interesting considering the main issue I see on boats is incorrect charging profiles used on lead based batteries and lack of proper watering maintenance.
__________________
Non illigitamus carborundum
newhaul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2024, 12:18   #28
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: PNW Puget Sound
Boat: 1955 G L Watson 40' Yawl
Posts: 417
Re: Unattended diesel heaters

Quote:
Originally Posted by newhaul View Post
Interesting considering the main issue I see on boats is incorrect charging profiles used on lead based batteries and lack of proper watering maintenance.
But you have to admit that problem is easily solved with some research, not to mention common sense. I have 3 group 31 AGMs that are 13 years old and still rest at 12.8V., 2 100W solar panels, MPPT charge controler, 70A alt. and a two bank battery charger for use in marina. Refrig., lights, computer, phone, movies.
I am interested in the forced air type heater, but have talked to several people that spend a lot of time trouble shooting various problems. My heater just puts out dry heat, and has done so for over 20 years and the flame is nice to watch from my bunk.
A wide range of input from serious boat people is my quest here.
Appreciate your thoughts.
Sailing55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2024, 12:26   #29
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: PNW Puget Sound
Boat: 1955 G L Watson 40' Yawl
Posts: 417
Re: Unattended diesel heaters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Windpilot View Post
Been using a forced air Chinese diesel heater for over 5 years now. Nothing bad has ever happened but I never have left it unattended. In fact I mostly just use it an hour or two in the evening and maybe an hour in the morning only. I've stepped off the boat while it's on but never out of site.
I don't think anything would happen but not willing to push my luck if it isn't necessary.
Interesting...when you leave the boat for an extended period and return is it a major operation to start the heater up
again?
Sailing55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2024, 12:32   #30
Senior Cruiser
 
newhaul's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: puget sound washington
Boat: 1968 Islander bahama 24 hull 182, 1963 columbia 29 defender. hull # 60
Posts: 13,090
Re: Unattended diesel heaters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailing55 View Post
But you have to admit that problem is easily solved with some research, not to mention common sense. I have 3 group 31 AGMs that are 13 years old and still rest at 12.8V., 2 100W solar panels, MPPT charge controler, 70A alt. and a two bank battery charger for use in marina. Refrig., lights, computer, phone, movies.
I am interested in the forced air type heater, but have talked to several people that spend a lot of time trouble shooting various problems. My heater just puts out dry heat, and has done so for over 20 years and the flame is nice to watch from my bunk.
A wide range of input from serious boat people is my quest here.
Appreciate your thoughts.
Proper running of the unit solves 99% of the maintance issues.
I have been running my furnace on the boat for 5 years . No issues except one failed thermostat. Due tomcorrosion .
Proper way is to run it at full blast for about 30 minutes per 24 hours constant of operation.
Myself I start it every morning just before I get out of my goose down cocoon and run it a couple hours in the evening shooting it off when I get in bed.
It runs at full blast for a couple minutes when starting and when shutting down .
__________________
Non illigitamus carborundum
newhaul is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
diesel, heater

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
We have propane heaters. Why no gasoline/petrol heaters? Chotu Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 132 19-10-2022 11:48
Insurance and Unattended Anchoring thinwater Anchoring & Mooring 5 21-07-2009 12:26
Best arrangements for leaving boat unattended in foreign ports??? Lightfin General Sailing Forum 4 19-02-2008 21:53
safe pleace leave the boat unattended phorvati Atlantic & the Caribbean 11 05-02-2007 23:02

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:08.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.