Thoughts on my plans so far.

[carlosproa]

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

NOOOOO!!!!!

Hahaha
Well the steel hull in Mexico I gave him the link check mark most of what he wants minus the washer, once you take the diesel out, plenty of room to put an electric motor that will propel him 20 miles... I am not saying it is a wise decision, I am saying that based on his requirements he can probably get what he wants: BUT be careful getting what you want instead of what you probably need

[stormalong]

Originally Posted by Lasivian

Many good points have been made here that I am going to use in my planning.

However, people just saying that something is not viable just because it's new and different is not helpful. Frankly i'm sure people said the same thing to Elon Musk about Tesla.

You're also forgetting that systems like Oceanvolt are regenerative, and produce power from the drive system when under sail. If you're paying for it then we can debate what the best or most efficient means of propulsion is.

Of course I don't know what i'm getting into, that's exactly why i'm here.

It just so happens that I own a Tesla. My car gets plugged into the power grid nightly and is fully charged in the morning. There is no power grid in the ocean.

Regenerative only works if you can sail to generate power. I have been in a situation where I motored for five days straight at near idle speed in the North Pacific high. With electric drive I would have been out of power in a few hours and would have drifted for who knows how long to get out of the flat calm.

[Yihang]

https://www.yachtingworld.com/featur...ainable-126310

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNB2...annel=Torqeedo

120k euros, best german engineered electric motor out there with 6 x BMW i8 10kwh batteries and the owners reckons 7 hours of motoring on batteries. He lost me when he said that's more than a diesel motor can do. It's his first boat.

But I think this is a realistic limitation of what the technology can do these days.

[goboatingnow]

I’m an engineer , I’ve sailed for over 30 years. Just because I can “ design “ things , doesn’t mean I have have the skills to build it. Just because i have the skills to build it , doesn’t mean I have the time or money to build it.


The OP basically hasn’t a clue. Building a sailboat from a bare hull is complex , you may need to source a good naval architecture to bring design skills specific to the job , this will include stability calculations , rigging calculations , standards compliance etc.

If you are serious about Electric drive , why not contact suppliers with knowledge in this field and get indicative pricing. You’ll rapidly realise why you don’t see cruising blue water yachts with electric only power.

( oh as for gasoline , check out the tankage needed for a reasonable generator /runtime not to mention the compliance standards and insurance issues.

Otherwise , coming on here with non specific “ grandiose “ plans is really just a form of confirmation bias.

The fact is it’s not that people arnt saying “ don’t do it “. There are serious flaws in your basic logic , a clear and massive lack of experience and significant over confidence.

Again why not do some basic costings

What would it cost to rig a 45 boat ,mast costs , standing rigging

And “ victory or death “ sounds more like an statement from the idiotic generals in the trenches of WW1 then the reasoned thought process of an “ engineer “

Perhaps if you came back here with some basic calculations and preliminary information based on real investigation you might find you’ll get a better reception rather then suggesting to experienced cruising people ( many of whom are engineers ) that you have a magic solution that they haven’t.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Lasivian

And most of the comments are a far cry from what I hoped for.



You see, I figured people might say, "These are the limitations of an electric system that you'll have to work around.", or, "A sugar scoop transom is going to be far more expensive and complicated than a swim platform, I would go that direction."



Instead I get "You can't do that." and, "Another one ... sigh!"



Stupid me for being hopeful I suppose.

No, you are refusing to actually debate reality , and really just seeking decision confirmation , decisions based on fairytale “engineering “

If you can raise billions on the VC circuit great I’m sure you can then make comparisons with Tesla , instead you have indication you have 100K and want to come in “ way under “ that. 100k is a mediocre amount in the 45 footer market place by the way.

Otherwise you might inform yourself by talking to one of the reputable players in the marine electric drive train market and actually replace the fairy tale engineering with sober ( and sobering ) information

[SalingSue]

Originally Posted by Lasivian

That's your opinion and you're welcome to it. Since people have crossed, and still do cross oceans with no engines at all I think I will be fine.

Think someone also crossed on a rowboat.

Doesn’t mean it’s the best way to do it. There is a reason diesel has held the market so strong for so long. To each their own

[double u]

Lasivian, for somebody with so little knowledge of the topic, that he can think of building such a 45' (!) boat for 100.000$ you sure have strong opinions. Quite obviously you did not start this thred to get advice & information, but confirmation for your preconceived ideas of re-inventing the wheel.
I was "on the water" a long time, one of our 3 rtw was on a boat I built myself. 100.000 to build yourself a 45'er- absolutely utterly ridiculous.
Come to think of it: you are just trolling - successsfully!

[SalingSue]

Originally Posted by double u

Lasivian, for somebody with so little knowledge of the topic, that he can think of building such a 45' (!) boat for 100.000$ you sure have strong opinions. Quite obviously you did not start this thred to get advice & information, but confirmation for your preconceived ideas of re-inventing the wheel.
I was "on the water" a long time, one of our 3 rtw was on a boat I built myself. 100.000 to build yourself a 45'er- absolutely utterly ridiculous.
Come to think of it: you are just trolling - successsfully!

His story reminds me of this

[sailorboy1]

So .............

Now that you have this massive plan when are you going to start? What is the timeline to have this project complete? Where are the researched cost estimates of the project (researched costs not mental wishes). Where is the project flowchart? So asked for comments, well till you have those all you have is a fantasy.

I doubt the OP ever even starts this project. He should prove me wrong and PM me when if he starts as I doubt I can remember that long.

But hey, this is a little different than the normal “I have a dream” that gets posted here.

[MicHughV]

here's what you do....

you get a big shovel and dig a hole in the water....then you throw all your money in there...there....that's boating experience.....

[Yihang]

Jimmy Cornell just gave up on regen.

https://cornellsailing.com/2020/12/e...pE6OaJ6aUO3ZqQ

Add another 10k for a generator. I think you are at about 100k for all the additions. Probably wont get any of that back when you resale. Potential buyers probably get you to give them replacement cost for a diesel motor. hahaha

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

. . . Fitting out a 45 footer from scratch is a huge task and a very costly one.

Firstly it could take you years depending on help, tools, skill set , climate , boat accommodation

Secondly it will in all likelihood cost you 1.5x an equivalent professional builder built boat.

Take your budget and buy a decent reasonably ready to go secondhand boat and “ GO”

Building a boat is a different thing to sailing one and the two require different skills , motivation and personalities. Very very few achieve both.

Print this out, and nail it to your forehead.


For your 1.5x (or 3x) cost, you buy the privilege of two or three years of hard labor. What a deal!!


Do not do this. Even a very good used boat, hell a new boat, will have more than enough things to repair and maintain and modify to satisfy any possible urge to build and tinker.


Without cruising experience, you have no idea what you need or want -- you will make an endless list of what turn out to be poor choices. You are far better off with the choices made by a real naval architect, as a starting point. Then when you buy your SECOND boat you can start setting different priorities.


As to the washing machine -- I have one on my boat (actually washer/dryer, and the dryer part is the more crucial, in my latitudes), and it's one of the most useful bits of kit on board. 45 feet is marginal for finding a place to cram one in. But this is a worthwhile project.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Lasivian

. . . "Sailing" is going to be a method of transporting my home, not an enjoyment on it's own. So buying any ole boat and "going" means i'm very likely to not enjoy what i'm doing. If I have to budget a year or more, and extra money into making the "home" I want on the water then so be it.

Don't buy "any ole boat". Spend a year (or two) shopping, and buy a boat which speaks to you. Then spend 5 years sailing that boat and learning why this was designed this way and that was designed that way and only then will you have the basis to make design choices of your own.

Concerning the economics of this -- don't think that by starting with an old bare hull, that you're saving any money. The hull is only 10% of less of the cost of a cruising boat. Custom building is very, very expensive, EVEN if you are doing as much of the labor you can yourself, and attribute no value to that labor. We had some folks on here who built a custom 49' boat from scratch, and spent more than a million dollars on it, although it is very basic, even spartan in much of its specification, with no generator, no unconventional drive, etc.

A new, cheap, mass produced cruising boat of that size will cost you €235k plus fitting out, so well North of $300 000. A custom boat of that size will cost up to $1 million or more.

The right way to do this is to buy a good used boat -- in this size $100k including the cost of the inevitable refurbishment/upgrading etc. is fairly thin and $200k is not fat. It could be done on $100k if you really look hard and find a quite old and not all that desirable boat which has been exceptionally well maintained by a seller who spent lavishly on maintenance and refurbishment.

Just absolutely forget the electric drive. Read the linked article with Jimmy Cornell's statement. You will spend tons of money and it will not work in the end. The OceanVolt system kind of works on a fast catamaran (regen power goes up geometrically with speed), although Jimmy Cornell found it highly unsatisfactory on HIS fast cat. It's a dead end on a heavy slow monohull. For sailing around the world, as you say you want to do, you need to be carrying with you the energy needed to motor a week through the doldrums, plus generate electrical power for domestic needs, maybe heat. The only energy storage with that kind of power density so far is diesel fuel. A dead standard conventional direct drive diesel is the only reasonable choice for this use case. Electric is good for day sailing, when you come back to a dock with shore power every night. NOT for sailing round the world. Not even on a fast catamaran, as Jimmy Cornell discovered.

As to sugar scoops and swim platforms -- go boat shopping and you will find what you want. Most boats built since about 1990 have good ways to get at the water for swimming, fishing, etc., which is something most people want these days.

[MicHughV]

Here's the thing....

I built my first boat...a 38' ketch....so I guess I know a thing or two...maybe...

At the time I started, I was 26 years old.....I thought I could build this boat for $9,000 and do it in a year....this is back in the late 70's.

So much for that idea !

Three years and about $20,000 later, I launched it....even at $20,000, it was barebones....no fridge...no electronics...no engine....yes, no engine....I thought I could do it without an engine...a lack of finances played into this decision.

Keep in mind that $20K 40 years ago is probably $100K today...maybe more..

For a short period of time, I managed without an engine....barely....I was basically bouncing from one near disaster to another. When the wind died, so did my motion....often in precarious situations....The wind was my friend, without wind, I wasn't going anywhere. I ran aground a lot. I became a very good and adept sailor out of need, which means there were times I wanted to go somewhere, but if the winds were contrary, a regular thing, I had to bust my arse to do so. A 10 mile trip could easily turn into a 50 mile trip and overnighter.

So the writing was on the wall for me, to continue cruising, I needed a reliable diesel in the boat. Retrofitting an engine is about 10 times more difficult and involved than doing it in the first place, but I got it done.

For several years, my cruising destinations revolved around ice availability. I had an icebox, and while a good one, 1-2 weeks was the best I could hope for. Refrigeration requires a lot of juice, so pretty soon, I had a wind generator, more batteries, etc..

The list of things I needed/wanted just kept growing. I slobbered after boats that had it all....seriously...I managed with my meagre budget.....but no question, while I managed, it required a terrific amount of planning. The wind was my friend. I didn't care which direction it came from as long as it came.

I wrote a book about all my early adventures and mis-adventures. Send me a PM if you're interested in reading it, it will give you a real world taste of reality and what it will take to accomplish what you are planning to do.

Putting a dream into reality requires quite a learning curve, many posters here have tried to nudge you into the right direction or encourage you based on their years of experience. Stop and take a listen.

[AJ_n_Audrey]

Davits make sense if you are going to be in protected waters a lot (Sea of Abaco, Exumas, Turks-Caicos) but not on passages. Then the dinghy needs to be lashed on deck or below. But also if you are going to cross oceans, you may want windvane self-steering, which is problematic with davits, though not impossible if you are willing to unship and stow the windvane when you reach protected waters.

If I were you, I'd buy a boat that is as nearly ready to go as possible, not build from a bare hull.