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Old 07-12-2020, 11:32   #46
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Re: Thoughts on my plans so far.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lasivian View Post
So, dangerous as this is, i'm sharing my plans so far. Feedback is appreciated. I'm wanting to try to avoid major mistakes or pitfalls. (IE. What am I missing.) Also wondering what hulls I should watch for that would meet my needs.

My max budget for a boat is going to be $100,000 USD. (I plan to come in way under this. But i'll have this much cash available.) This boat will be what I live on for the next several decades while sailing around the world.

My thinking is i'm probably going to just want to start with an older solid hull that has no engine, and perhaps no interior, then just build it the way I want it. (I'm an Engineer for a living, so this doesn't scare me.)

Requirements: (Things that will influence what hull I start with)
Monohull sailboat "Bluewater safe" (Cats seem nice, but they increase the budget too much.)
  • Length > 45(ish)(I want comfortable space for 4-5 people.)
  • Comfort Ratio > 30
  • Capsize Screening Formula < 2
  • Headroom > 6'
Regenerative electric drive system. (Oceanvolt or the like. I'm not doing diesel. I can afford to start electric, so I figure it's the best way to go.)
Lithium battery electrical system. (Not sure yet if this has to be something seperate of the lithium drive system. I would prefer to combine to have one big powerbank unless there is a reason not to.)
An 11'(ish) RIB Dinghy (This should do all I need. I'm just guessing it will determine what the davits need to be capable of.)
Rear dingy davits. (Having quick access to a constantly prepared dinghy is critical to me. I'm low on motivation, so having to put a dinghy in thge water, then put on the motor and load it up easily becomes "too much of a chore". Rear Davits seem the best for this, but I might be wrong.)
Sugar scoop transom, or a large swim platform. (I love to fish and swim. So easy water access seems very important.)
A washing machine. (Yes, it's a luxury to many, but to me it's ciritcal. Doesn't have to be large.
Watermaker. (Some people would say this isn't a requirement, but I consider it to be.)
No wood decks. (I refuse to take care of wood decking, or other external wood.)

Thanks for reading all that.
With all due respect, this sounds like a nightmare in the making. having come from a construction background. I've yet to meet an architect or engineer who could build anything. The pros that build boats have invested years learning that skillset. You say you have the money to start with electric - unfortunately with your budget, you won't have enough left for the boat. In light of the fact that regeneration does not become effective until you're doing at least 5 knots, this probably is not worth doing on a mono hull (it's debatable if it's worth doing on a catamaran). You can probably find a very decent 42'er in the $80,000 range that would only need a few upgrades and would be blue water capable. A Tayana, Vancouver 42 would be a good choice if you can find one at your price in good shape.
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Old 07-12-2020, 11:46   #47
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Re: Thoughts on my plans so far.

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Originally Posted by AJ_n_Audrey View Post
Davits make sense if you are going to be in protected waters a lot (Sea of Abaco, Exumas, Turks-Caicos) but not on passages. Then the dinghy needs to be lashed on deck or below. But also if you are going to cross oceans, you may want windvane self-steering, which is problematic with davits, though not impossible if you are willing to unship and stow the windvane when you reach protected waters.



If I were you, I'd buy a boat that is as nearly ready to go as possible, not build from a bare hull.


These days with solar etc. You donít need windvanes, did two altantic crossing using standard ray marine autopilots , in one we did not touch the wheel for two weeks.
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Old 07-12-2020, 12:17   #48
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Re: Thoughts on my plans so far.

Sounds like a primary flying student I tried to instruct back in the sixties. Had three masters degrees, he said. He got so frustrated trying to learn the basics of flying around the traffic pattern to get his skill level to the point where he could safely solo, he finally said to me, "This is the most disorganized learning experience I have ever had. Can't you just write down the steps of flying the traffic pattern so I can study them at home?" Yes I could for this airport only but then only if the wind doesn't change tomorrow.

Needless to say he never soloed. Talk about brain freeze, target fixation, inadaptability, or whatever, this guy was the worst of several hundred people I worked with, many of whom today are retired captains of major airlines.
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Old 07-12-2020, 13:39   #49
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Thoughts on my plans so far.

I just read all the comments, some helpful, some a bit snarky. Here's a professional opinion from someone who thinks it's totally possible; electric drive does work, batteries can be charged with solar, etc. Take Jimmy C's advice and skip regeneration. Now for the bad news. I've been doing this stuff for onto 4 decades, have the contacts, the tools, even a few engineering friends with books on this stuff who would be glad to help. I chose a Hylas 45.5 (44 w/the stern you want). And it would cost me about $280K. That's right, $280K. It isn't that you can't do exactly want to, you just can't do it on the budget you suggest, and even if you could I'm not sure after you did that you'd want to. Buy a good used Stevens 47 and go sailing. You'll have more fun.
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Old 07-12-2020, 14:26   #50
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Re: Thoughts on my plans so far.

My father was an electronic engineer, he built a Spray replica in steel that I spent 4 months working on with him. We frequently argued about how to do things.

His ideal engineer world vs my mechanic/welder world.

In the end, he ran out of money for the project and abandoned it.
Everything took too long to do and had to be perfect.

So if you look around maybe you can find his old hull and finish it out.

Having rebuilt several boats myself I would say find something that is usable the way it is and then customize it. As far as diesel I go oversized and have power when I need it. We have an E car and it is fun to drive but we can go a lot further burning fuel.

I rather have an oar or paddle for backup the energy source is refuelable anywhere.
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Old 07-12-2020, 19:24   #51
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Re: Thoughts on my plans so far.

Let me share my experience. A few years ago I made the decision to re-build our 40 ft yawl after a sinking. That was not the total tragedy it may appear at first, because I had been contemplating an extensive re-fit for some time, to the point of almost ordering a new engine. I was prepared to have the boat out of service at least a year.
Everything on the boat that could be removed got the treatment: all painted and varnished surfaces inside and out (43 quarts of varnish, BTW), total wiring replacement, cabinet hardware, ALL electrical circuits, switches, electronics, gen set, panels, pumps, fans , blowers, lights, plumbing, tanks, rigging, engine and drive train, cushions, curtains, standing and running rigging, sails, teak rub rails, hand rails, canvas work...everything except cabinet work and deck hardware. Everything chromed got re-chromed.
The whole job took four years. I worked on it 8 hours a day for at least six days a week. I was more than a little surprised by how much I spent sourcing parts and materials, whether in person, via email, or telephone. Our corner of Texas is less than a two hour drive from one of the largest concentrations of pleasure boats in the U.S.- Galveston Bay at Kemah-Seabrook. It seems like I made endless trips over there to arrange for sails, cushions, canvas work, tanks, handrails, etc. etc., then a second series of endless trips to collect them, because freight would have been cost-prohibitive. I was lucky also because during the time of the re-fit, West Marine had a store open about three miles away. Not always cost-efficient, but convenience has its attractions. That was during the time they price-matched. (West Marine convenience, Defender prices, no freight. They’d cringe to see me walk in with a Defender catalog in one hand, West Marine catalog and rewards coupons in the other). Though much of the equipment was ordered via mail, some things just seem to require eyes-on and hands-on decisions. I felt like the procurement side of the job could have gone much better.
No single task I did was a first time for me. Everything I did had been done by me on one of my prior boats, just not all of it on one boat at the same time. I didn’t get much benefit from a learning curve, because very little was a brand new task. There were very few re-do’s and they were small.
There were a lot of routine inefficiencies, like drill bits breaking (again) or odd-sized screws dropping into the bilge or other inaccessible places after tanks had been re-installed. A pretty well-stocked Ace hardware is just a few blocks away, and the number of times I would make three trips a day to get something I dropped, broke, ran out of or just plain forgot seemed constant.
I was fortunate that the boat project was done in the back lot of an outboard boat dealer just one song on the radio away, so I didn’t burn much available time in commuting. But the days that I didn’t have to return home to retrieve a tool, or visit a supplier or repair shop, or send something to be serviced via UPS were too rare. No doubt a go-fer could have reduced some (much?) of this, but not enough to keep said go-fer on daily stand-by. Besides, there was just too much that I needed to evaluate, or check options, etc. to entrust to someone else.
How much did it all cost? The insurance paid off on a total constructive loss. The boat is a Hinckley. I spent every bit of it, and I did 90% of all the work. FWIW, When completed, it was surveyed and appraised at a value far in excess of the original insured value. Since re-launching, we have continued to sail this boat frequently. I do not think any part-time amateur boat tech like me anywhere could have materially improved on the time it took. I have no-regrets about doing it, but hope I’m not faced with that choice again.
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Old 08-12-2020, 05:45   #52
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Re: Thoughts on my plans so far.

we are all wasting our time here....
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Old 08-12-2020, 06:47   #53
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Re: Thoughts on my plans so far.

low-overcast day here in the forest-might as well feed the troll...
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Old 08-12-2020, 06:56   #54
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Re: Thoughts on my plans so far.

Hi Lasivian,

I've read through this thread, and I've looked through some of your other posts, and it looks like we may have some things in common. I'm technically minded, love to solve problems and think through projects, and then think some more through a project, and then think through a project even more. I really, really love thinking through projects.

For example, take a look at this newbie post here, from more than ten years ago (spoiler alert, it's your post): I'm looking for someone more experienced to give me some pointers or point out any potential pitfalls in my plans before I fall into them the hard way.

In that thread, you said
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lasivian View Post
I have no experience at sailing. (Tho I learn fast).
Then here in this thread, you said

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lasivian View Post
I don't know how to sail. But I have spent quite a bit of time on boats....
So in ten years--almost eleven--you have thought about living and cruising on a sailboat, but you have not yet learned how to sail. You said that sailing wasn't important because it was just a means to relocate your home. So my first piece of advice, which I think you have already heard from others, is to learn to sail. I don't think you can properly refurbish and maintain a sailboat without a significant understanding of how all the hardware works together. Options include buying a small trailer boat with a cabin that you can take to the San Juans and stay aboard for days or weeks, or join a club in Seattle for the occasional overnighter. The more time you spend aboard, the better informed your decisions will be in working on future boats. That is a fact.

Ask yourself this question: if you were to buy and refurbish a 45-foot boat, what would your very first concrete step be (ie, not including thinking and planning). When will you do this? If my math is correct, you are in your mid-40's, approaching 50. You are planning to not only accomplish the physical labor of building a boat, but also mastering multiple trades that professionals spend years learning. When will you do this? What is the first step? In my opinion, the first step is to spend time on a boat.

In your spare time you may enjoy this youtube channel from a person who has spent 4 years refurbishing a 30-foot boat: Sail Life. Seems like a nice guy, very technically minded in his approaches, and very skilled from what I can see. I like watching things like this between my job (full time in a cubicle), working on or sailing my own boat (very modest 27-footer), or tending to family responsibilities.

Cheers and good luck to you.
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Old 08-12-2020, 07:29   #55
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Re: Thoughts on my plans so far.

we could start telling jokes...

" hey, did you hear the one about the guy..............."
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Old 08-12-2020, 21:52   #56
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Re: Thoughts on my plans so far.

Well obviously the op is taking his time and researching his plan carefully. I suspect heíll eventually find what he needs to find and go from there.
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Old 09-12-2020, 00:54   #57
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Re: Thoughts on my plans so far.

These are always entertaining threads. I especially enjoy the ones..."I want peoples thoughts on my 12 year plan to take my 4 children and wife on a $500,000 Cat around the world. Which Cat should I buy?
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Old 09-12-2020, 06:05   #58
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Re: Thoughts on my plans so far.

Funny , how come you donít see threads ( on other forums ) like , I really want to build a bulldozer by starting off by buying a complete wreck and striping it etc

Yet itís a ďcommon ď occurrence with boats , I wonder why
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Old 09-12-2020, 06:10   #59
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Re: Thoughts on my plans so far.

boating is just irresistable to the nutters! Here in a forest paper a guy was featured: he had just bought a 47' aluminium hull (totally bare!) from a homebuilder who had died and there he was in the paper spouting everything about the dive charter business in Thailand that he will start 2 years from now after "finishing" the boat himself. Each time we cycled past the place: nobody to be seen, portholes empty holes open to thw weather...
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Old 09-12-2020, 07:29   #60
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Re: Thoughts on my plans so far.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lasivian View Post
So, dangerous as this is, i'm sharing my plans so far. Feedback is appreciated. I'm wanting to try to avoid major mistakes or pitfalls. (IE. What am I missing.) Also wondering what hulls I should watch for that would meet my needs.

My max budget for a boat is going to be $100,000 USD. (I plan to come in way under this. But i'll have this much cash available.) This boat will be what I live on for the next several decades while sailing around the world.

My thinking is i'm probably going to just want to start with an older solid hull that has no engine, and perhaps no interior, then just build it the way I want it. (I'm an Engineer for a living, so this doesn't scare me.)

Requirements: (Things that will influence what hull I start with)
Monohull sailboat "Bluewater safe" (Cats seem nice, but they increase the budget too much.)
  • Length > 45(ish)(I want comfortable space for 4-5 people.)
  • Comfort Ratio > 30
  • Capsize Screening Formula < 2
  • Headroom > 6'
Regenerative electric drive system. (Oceanvolt or the like. I'm not doing diesel. I can afford to start electric, so I figure it's the best way to go.)
Lithium battery electrical system. (Not sure yet if this has to be something seperate of the lithium drive system. I would prefer to combine to have one big powerbank unless there is a reason not to.)
An 11'(ish) RIB Dinghy (This should do all I need. I'm just guessing it will determine what the davits need to be capable of.)
Rear dingy davits. (Having quick access to a constantly prepared dinghy is critical to me. I'm low on motivation, so having to put a dinghy in thge water, then put on the motor and load it up easily becomes "too much of a chore". Rear Davits seem the best for this, but I might be wrong.)
Sugar scoop transom, or a large swim platform. (I love to fish and swim. So easy water access seems very important.)
A washing machine. (Yes, it's a luxury to many, but to me it's ciritcal. Doesn't have to be large.
Watermaker. (Some people would say this isn't a requirement, but I consider it to be.)
No wood decks. (I refuse to take care of wood decking, or other external wood.)

Thanks for reading all that.

First, Double...skip that...triple your budget, Read some sailing blogs, watch video's immerse yourself into sailing, take ASA101 class (more if possible) then buy that 44' (14' beam) boat fitted out conventionally.

Your Welcome!
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