The WTF are they thinking thread

[S/V Alchemy]

Originally Posted by Tar34

Alchemy said:.....romance of unregulated life.....

Nice to hear how much you value diversity. Mine was not so much a libertarian rant as much as those who criticize those whose resources may not be equal to some. Yes, "the romance of the unregulated life" fits the stereotype perfectly. Nice you will fine comfort in some "regulated" cruising.

Resources take many forms. Skill in the form of seamanship and experience means a veteran sailor can move a raft with a blanket on a stick from one place to another without endangering himself or others. Put someone with a poverty of seamanship in a new Tartan 4100 and they can run down kayakers and stare blankly at the wooden plugs when the single-clamped hose falls off.

The sea doesn't care how much money you've spent to ride over the top of it.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by skipmac

So the locals had to expend time, resources and risk the safety of their rescue team to haul the kid off the mountain.

Don't matter what you do or where, someone somewhere likely will call you an idjut who deserves all "you" get. and that includes if you simply stayed at home but had the bad luck to fall off the crapper .

But nonetheless, IMO simply a sign of civilisation that others will at least try. Personally I would have gone out to look for him (again!), how hard I looked would be another matter - sometimes Darwin needs a hand .

[GaryMayo]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

It was meant to be a joke!

Yeah, I was amazed to learn that just because you win a lawsuit, that doesnt mean the loser necessarily is forced to pay! Some just dont pay and suffer no consequences....

Someone I don't know, but knew me, or rather knew I could be Big Show's big brother, asked me to collect a $110,000.00 judgment that has not been paid. I would get $50,000.00 for my trouble. HEAVENS!

Being big, means I have never had to scrap over anything ever. In a fight. A little guy would hand me my butt. I pondered the offer for several weeks before turning it down. I could see a deal like that going bad from so many directions.

[GaryMayo]

Originally Posted by Blue Crab

Actually, Jesus. “It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.” (Mk. 10:25)

The eye is not a sewing needle, but the city gates. It is polite, humble and many times, prudent to walk into a city, and not ride in.

Riding in made one look foolish or arrogant.

[Blue Stocking]

The gates were built oval shape, with the long axis vertical, narrow top and bottom.
This would prevent a horde charging in, but would allow a burdened camel to pass thru with side hung loads.

[GaryMayo]

Originally Posted by Doodles

No we're not home free yet. The Mayan thing is the 21st not the 12th.

It is not a stopwatch with a second hand on it. It is a 2150 year glass with sand running through it. When the sand is done, and the glass it turned over. Starting again, will be the start of another age.

[xymotic]

On a 68' multimillion dollar motoryacht. I'm aboard to be the helper, so I go on the bow to man the anchor, and the captain routinely asks me what I think of this spot or that.

One day he circles the boat around and around then comes to a stop and says what do you think about here? I start dropping anchor and as it goes out I ask how much I should put out and he says well, we're in 80' of water.

So I think, wtf do you think I think, pull up anchor and tell him to drive to the other side of the bay as we'd discussed at the beginning.

Next day, we pull into a cove only this one is really tight with steep drop offs, and there is a mooring for one boat. It's the heaviest mooring I've ever seen. So I suggest we just take that because we don't have nearly enough scope to anchor elsewhere.

Owner decided no, spends like 45 minutes circling around, finally finds a spot and this time instead of asking he tells me to put out 50' of chain.

so once the boat is sorted, I dump a crab pot off the rear swim stem, it sinks like 7' and stops. So I tell owner we better move beacuse it's really shallow.

He looks at me and says "really? because the depth sounder said we had 12' under the keel!?"

A) nope, it was 12' actual depth

and B) WTF are we doing anchoring a boat with a 7' draft in 12' of water, in Alaska with a 10' tide? And BTW, the depth sounder is 60 damned feet farther from shore, and probably 100' from where we dropped anchor!!!!!

[Connemara]

I just want to comment -- very briefly -- about the various references to Darwin in this thread.

Old Charley and his theory really haven't got much to do with doing stupid things and dying -- unless the doing of the stupid things prevents reproduction. If any particular stupid thing does that, then over time, we would expect that particular form of stupid to be weeded out.

Assuming, of course, that stupid is genetic.

I've known lots of bright folks who do stupid things, on occasion. Been one of them, too. So I don't think genetics plays a large role in most of the stupid things we do. A sense of entitlement, maybe? Or lack of education? Or a missing sense of danger? But probably not genetics.

And even if it did, there's no evidence it prevents us reproducing BEFORE we go out and get ourselves killed. I could go out tomorrow in a tin scow and try to cross the Atlantic with a case of beer and some crackers for provisions. When I met my fate, it would be too late -- I have already passed on my genes.

So Darwin really doesn't apply.

I guess that really wasn't all that brief. Sorry, something pushed a button.


Connemara

[Nemo55]

A thief is a thief is a thief, bring back the stocks and ridicule them before making them pay back their victims.
If we slammed everyone for being stupid, our roads would be empty of motorists.
If we made the ignorant pay for their mistakes, the halls of our governments would be empty.
For better or worse we are set on a course of humanist action, some will deny others the rights they take for themselves by way of laws or violence.
Being responsible for our own actions is only logical in an age where irresponsibility rules, we are an anachronism.
But we strive to be better at taking care of our Brother man.woman.
Despite the survivalist mentality of some people.

There but for the grace of God Go "I"

Originally Posted by Wotname

Interesting thread!
And while I haven't picked your post out of the many here for any special reason; it does highlight the many sides of the "WTF Coin".

In essence I agree with your thoughts: like "clean up your own mess" and "be accountable" but I don't think "punishment" can make "stupid" become accountable; however I could be persuaded otherwise; which works better - the carrot or the stick; I can never decide - one works for some and the other works for some.

I also think that "one can't fix stupid" and the Darwinian concept helped to remove many of the "stupid". In some ways it is a shame that we (as a society) try harder and harder to protect "stupid" from themselves yet I can't abide letting "stupid" die when they can be saved by the "smart".

On another aspect of the "WTF thing"; I have zero tolerance of those who are simply sponging of the rest of us by by willing to take advantage of our (collective) generosity in order to achieve their own goals.

I can applaud those who say go to sea with old worn out sails and are constantly re-stitching by hand because they can't afford better sails and I can approve of those who asks if someone is willing to re-stitch their sails even though they cannot pay and I can accept those who ask someone to supply new sails for free but I cannot accept in any way those who say order new sails without any intention of paying and thus frauding the sailmaker. I just see that as thievery of the worst order. My tolerance meter can't cope with such and I would be happy to be labelled as intolerant to thieves of other's generosity.

OK rant over

[David_Old_Jersey]

IIRC, that Camel and gate thing is a myth - no historical evidence of those sorts of gates existing (and simply no logic to designing gates to principly restrict a camel entering a gate! - apart from making a gate simply too small for a camel!)........arguments over exactly how it came about.....

My bet is on either a mistranslation, a reference to something that was already a common myth (or belief!) that somewhere there was (or had been) such a gate (folks back then didn't get around so much!)..........or it is being a point conveyed using simply understood exageration - which means Jesus was a Commie!

[Bash]

Originally Posted by Connemara

I could go out tomorrow in a tin scow and try to cross the Atlantic with a case of beer and some crackers for provisions.

Get real! Everyone knows it takes two cases of beer to cross the Atlantic.

[perchance]

"Beware the Camels nose": From an Arab proverb.

[Connemara]

Originally Posted by Bash

Get real! Everyone knows it takes two cases of beer to cross the Atlantic.

My point, exactly... it would be stupid to try it with just one. Me dying of thirst won't stop my son from trying .. he already has the I-don't- need-that-much-beer-anyway gene.

(Small fib to make the point. My son believes there is no such thing as too much beer.)

Connemara

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by JazzyO

I applaud diversity as I have said before.

All that has nothing to do with the fact that someone who puts other lives in danger when they should have known better is in the wrong. We take driving licenses away for a reason. Wherever you go on this planet, you have accountability to others in society. Don't let others mop up your messes unless they were honest mistakes and you tried to prevent them. THAT is being social. Like it or not, this is not a free for all.

I want people to be rescued even if they are acting without any train of thought. But they need to be accountable. I do not want them to rely on something as an excuse not to prepare themselves for what they want to do. People that go out on in shallow waters without any sailing experience using a car map should be punished if they run aground. Simple as that. And punished does not mean anything radical, but a forced Day Skipper course and payment for the rescue services would be a good start.

BTW - To suggest that I wouldn't want fishermen to be rescued is offensive. Let alone the ghetto comments.

It is amazing how little decorum people have these days in social interaction, particularly on the internet. You imply you are a tolerant being. Why don't you display a bit more of that tolerance before putting people on the stake?

Onno

I'm not putting anyone on the stake , I am giving my view.

In my opinion very few people set out with the intention of getting into trouble. Hence it is appropriate that we " offer " to rescue them. Even the hard cases don't justify the opposing view. Merely because some kid or other occasionally abuses the rescue facilities , in no way justifies removing those services. Just as welfare abusers are not a justification for curtailing welfare. The system needs to obviously punish serial abusers.


My ghetto comment was to illustrate the logical end point of the " be responsible for your actions" brigade. The problem of course is who determines what actions you are responsible for. It's is symptomatic of the " strong will survive" and the weak will die argument, that often of course the strong are morally wrong and the weak may be just " vulnerable"

I'm sorry if the comment annoyed you, but I've no time for the punish the foolish/weak/stupid attitude. Way too right wing for my liking. And it's been used all through history to perpetrate the worst abuses.


Dave

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by perchance

"Beware the Camels nose": From an Arab proverb.

I thought that was Camel toes to beware of?...