The (Official) "Lets Bash the Nina Thread" - sponsored by Bazzer :-)

[bazzer]

Like it or not there are trolls on this thread. I personally ignore anyone with just a few posts to their name and has recently joined. Or those asking for "donations"

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by tom1263

It is a tragedy, but I think we have to accept that Nina is overdue since June 4th. A long time. Nina was purchased in 1988 and certainly well equipped and in good conditions.

Apparently her hull had been sheathed in fibreglass 10(?) years back - that is never done by choice and more often than not it is the last roll of the dice for a wooden boat as whilst it adds (back) structural integrity in the short term, the price of that is a shorter remaining life as provides opportunities for rot to develop in hidden places and out of sight means no opportunity to identify and fix (replace) as is normal - the fibreglass sheathing never comes off of course just to have a look at the wood underneath!

[barnakiel]

I do not understand why NZ or AUS SAR do not fly a mission in light of what was found via tomnod. Is is because SAR leaders do not consider tomnod a reliable source?

It is not about the money. It must be something else - it is a pity NZ SAR would not make a statement to tell people how they see the situation, what they think about the tomnod find.

I tried asking in Niña thread but it all became very cryptographic there and I do not understand this either. Have the families talked to SAR about tomnod find? What did they hear?

I mean no wreck, no flotsam, no bodies, no nothing. Hard to say 'they are gone' in this light.

I think if that IS a raft, then whatever SAR is in charge, they will find themselves ears deep in ...

b.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

I do not understand why NZ or AUS SAR do not fly a mission in light of what was found via tomnod. Is is because SAR leaders do not consider tomnod a reliable source?

It is not about the money. It must be something else - it is a pity NZ SAR would not make a statement to tell people how they see the situation, what they think about the tomnod find.

I tried asking in Niña thread but it all became very cryptographic there and I do not understand this either. Have the families talked to SAR about tomnod find? What did they hear?

I mean no wreck, no flotsam, no bodies, no nothing. Hard to say 'they are gone' in this light.

I think if that IS a raft, then whatever SAR is in charge, they will find themselves ears deep in ...

b.

Its a big, very empty and little travelled part of a massive ocean... if they could find no trace of Grain de Soliel and Lady D near the Azores in a comparatively busy ocean... what chance the high latitudes of the S. Pacific...

[bazzer]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

I do not understand why NZ or AUS SAR do not fly a mission in light of what was found via tomnod. Is is because SAR leaders do not consider tomnod a reliable source?

It is not about the money. It must be something else - it is a pity NZ SAR would not make a statement to tell people how they see the situation, what they think about the tomnod find.

I tried asking in Niña thread but it all became very cryptographic there and I do not understand this either. Have the families talked to SAR about tomnod find? What did they hear?

I mean no wreck, no flotsam, no bodies, no nothing. Hard to say 'they are gone' in this light.

I think if that IS a raft, then whatever SAR is in charge, they will find themselves ears deep in ...

b.

I am doubting the credibility of Tomnod. I am guessing here, but I think the NZ SAR might be as well. If anyone imagines that the NZ SAR does not have access to these images, if they are real, and much better in terms of resolution then they are being foolish. Just look at the resolution of Google earth images and you will see what I mean. My 20ft boat in my driveway is very clearly seen. Imagine what the classified sat photos might show.
Now it's just a waiting game to see when a piece of real flotsam turns up. My extra fuel jugs are clearly marked with my boats name.

[nova13]

Originally Posted by bazzer

Whilst I have been using Tomnod as well what is your relationship to the site? I believe the original owners have now sold the site. They state there images come from various sources. I for one would like to know what I'm looking at, where it is and where the images came from. Unreasonable ?
I would also like to see their business model out of interest, maybe they are mining for email addresses.

Bazzer .. for goodness sake, my only relationship to their site is via the Bringing Nina Home facebook page. Have a look and the info you seek is there or on tomnod.com.

[nova13]

Originally Posted by bazzer

I am doubting the credibility of Tomnod. I am guessing here, but I think the NZ SAR might be as well. If anyone imagines that the NZ SAR does not have access to these images, if they are real, and much better in terms of resolution then they are being foolish. Just look at the resolution of Google earth images and you will see what I mean. My 20ft boat in my driveway is very clearly seen. Imagine what the classified sat photos might show.
Now it's just a waiting game to see when a piece of real flotsam turns up. My extra fuel jugs are clearly marked with my boats name.

Google Earth does not cover oceans as there is little interest. Also,most humbly in the face of your vast experience and knowledge, I suggest that if you move your boat out of your driveway, Google Earth will still show it as being there until updates weeks/months in the future.

I am a NZ born Kiwi and live in NZ. I am not a troll. I do not shill for Tomnod. Cheers.

[ShaktiGurl]

Originally Posted by bazzer

I am doubting the credibility of Tomnod. I am guessing here, but I think the NZ SAR might be as well. If anyone imagines that the NZ SAR does not have access to these images, if they are real, and much better in terms of resolution then they are being foolish. Just look at the resolution of Google earth images and you will see what I mean. My 20ft boat in my driveway is very clearly seen. Imagine what the classified sat photos might show.
Now it's just a waiting game to see when a piece of real flotsam turns up. My extra fuel jugs are clearly marked with my boats name.

TomNod was acquired by DigitalGlobe who supplies imagery to GoogleEarth (and frankly the NGA classified data) but I am unclear if that is what is provided here. I have asked for clarification from them. The difficulty in using the same quality imagery you see on GE is that it takes thousands of images to cover the sq footage needed to search this area. It is terrabyes of data to cover the area for just one day, if it is even cloud free.

UPDATE: the contact from TomNod confirmed it *is* high res imagery from DG ( QuickBird or Worldview quality). I think looking over open ocean with no reference gives the illusion it is not. I also suggested they add on their main page for Nina that they mention the imagery and resolution and if possible, add lat/lon to the display. Here is the info I received:

"The imagery is from DigitalGlobe (our parent company). Their constellation of 5 satellites captures the world's best commercially-available imagery or our planet. The resolution of our DigitalGlobe satellite images means that 1 pixel corresponds to about 50cm2 on the ground (or ocean in this case). That means that a 8m liferaft would be about 16 pixels and the 70ft schooner Nina would be about 42 pixels long. You can also use the scale bar at the bottom of the screen to get some reference for the object sizes you're looking for."

Should I cross-post on the Nina search thread since I am not really bashin?

[nova13]

Originally Posted by Friend of Nina

That is not good, making people there is something when not!!
Cherie

Cherie .. I apologised elsewhere for posting it -- it came from one of the facebook Nina support groups, but I found it and posted here before the full description of what it actually was was posted. I feel terrible about it. I am so sorry.

I am just one of the thousands using tomnod images to help. Oddly, I am accused of being a troll, asking for money, and a shill for tomnod who is thought to be using fake images by one member here. Today I guess I am just happy I can enjoy my life without such deep cynicism.

Whatever is needed to find your loved ones, even this late, may comfort come for you all.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by nova13

Cherie .. I apologised elsewhere for posting it -- it came from one of the facebook Nina support groups, but I found it and posted here before the full description of what it actually was was posted. I feel terrible about it. I am so sorry.

I am just one of the thousands using tomnod images to try and help a little. I am accused of being a troll, asking for money, and a shill for tomnod who is thought to be using fake images by one member here. Today I guess I am just happy I can enjoy my life without such deep cynicism.

Whatever is needed to find your loved ones, even this late, may comfort come for you all.

You posted that it came from your friend, who used a program on her PC to depixalize the image and that it turned out to be the same brand of liferaft that Niña has aboard. That is a lot of info and none of that was on the FB page you hide behind. Where did that info come from? Is it true or do you just make these things up?

[bazzer]

There is nothing on the Tomnod site except to tell one how wonderful they are. If the resolution is so great and the same as Google earth it should be easy to see detail in the apparent life raft. Just look at your own home on GE and you will see what I mean. On my house it easy to see the garden grill etc. So what's the angle with TomNod? Or is it just another bogus website?
Next, I don't believe it costs $20k to put a twin Cessna in the air for eight hours of daylight which is what equafraud wants.
In the USA the civil air patrol does it for free

[ShaktiGurl]

Originally Posted by bazzer

There is nothing on the Tomnod site except to tell one how wonderful they are. If the resolution is so great and the same as Google earth it should be easy to see detail in the apparent life raft. Just look at your own home on GE and you will see what I mean. On my house it easy to see the garden grill etc. So what's the angle with TomNod? Or is it just another bogus website?
Next, I don't believe it costs $20k to put a twin Cessna in the air for eight hours of daylight which is what equafraud wants.

Bazzer, they were purchased by DigitalGlobe who also supplies the same imagery to GoogleEarth. They are getting the imagery for Nina from DG. In fact, it is pan sharpened World-view 2 imagery according to their CFO who I just contacted. This imagery is state of the art and the same used by our largest govt entities. If it is true, it is of excellent quality ( unless their CFO is flat out lying to me). The company is real and the imagery is legit. He says an FAQ is in the works and should be on the website tonight.

The search area is huge and images over the ocean have no reference points to give you an idea of scale. TomNod also isn't a sophosticated program that can be used to enhace images. I work closely with DG and satellite imagery for a living. I do not believe they are "bogus". You are running into real limitations with large areas, imagery acquision timing, and unrealistic expectations of what can be done.

[bazzer]

On this forum there probably are many trolls. There is no proof that anyone is who they say they are. I personally only believe those who have been posting for quite a while on a variety of subject and not just unvented a screen name in order to troll and make mischief. In the case of Nina we are affecting real people out there someone and maybe causing more grief than is necessary. This is very true in the case of the Tomnod orange blob which could have been easily fabricated with any pixel editing software. I'm not stating that it is bogus, but give me more proof that it is real. Maybe send the proof to the relatives and the NZ SAR first.

[ShaktiGurl]

Originally Posted by bazzer

On this forum there probably are many trolls. There is no proof that anyone is who they say they are. I personally only believe those who have been posting for quite a while on a variety of subject and not just unvented a screen name in order to troll and make mischief. In the case of Nina we are affecting real people out there someone and maybe causing more grief than is necessary. This is very true in the case of the Tomnod orange blob which could have been easily fabricated with any pixel editing software. I'm not stating that it is bogus, but give me more proof that it is real. Maybe send the proof to the relatives and the NZ SAR first.

Fair enough. You do not have to. I have no idea if what they saw is real or where they saw it as I was not participating. I have no affiliation with the familes. I only offered my expertise when they asked questions regarding the use of satellite imagery.
I did want to say that it is inaccurate to say these companies are not providing what they say they are providing. In my opinion, and experience ( this was a big announcement at my company because of our close ties with DG), what they are providing is GoogleEarth quality imagery in a sime to use interface. TomNod is a cutting edge use of technology ( unheard of just a few years ago) that has drawbacks because it relies on the general public who are not experienced in viewing imagery. Some can even be "trolls". But what these companies are providing is real and should not be discouraged for those who are using it trying to actually help others.

-Mari

[bazzer]

Hey guys and girls, although my name is on the thread title I did not start it. I have outworn my welcome here and besides I have a teak deck and a cruise that needs my attention, so you might be pleased to know that I am not going to participate in this thread or the other Nina thread any longer.
I hope that Neptune gives us back Nina and her crew

Thanks
Bazzer

Ex RAF, British army and ex a lot else.