The (Official) "Lets Bash the Nina Thread" - sponsored by Bazzer :-)

[minaret]

Originally Posted by ShaunJ

No truer words have been spoken. Thanks Mark
Bty, you bet your a** if you had gone down we would have armchaired the entire event and blamed the Bene.

Dood, do you actually have lyrics from a Chumbawumba song in your sig?! Lol! I'm embarrassed to admit spotting it and knowing what it was....

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by minaret

Dood, do you actually have lyrics from a Chumbawumba song in your sig?! Lol! I'm embarrassed to admit spotting it and knowing what it was....

Its one of the most meaningful songs of my life. So many times I've been knocked down in my work career. But its only me who has been able to get me back up. The same with cruising. If I allowed every time I have been knocked down (not weather wise) then I would have sold the boat and gone home. Cruising aint easy! And its nothing to do with the cruising its everything else that affects someone who tries to go enjoy life.

I get knocked down. But I get up again!


Mark

[mbianka]

Maybe it was not the weather or the seaworthiness of the boat at all. My understanding there were several woman on board too! People forget that was considered bad luck by sailors for centuries. Just sayin' Wonder if they left port on a Friday too? Whose to say it was not just a Karmic sail to hell.

P.S. help my tongue is firmly implanted in my cheek.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Also unclear how many buckets they had onboard, could be too many (hard to believe that number exists) or could be too few........

[boatman61]

Personally I find it amusing to hear the words 'Seamanship & Safety' equated with how many 'Big Red Buttons' you can carry to get someone come save your sorry asses when TSHTF...
If they've been rolled and dis masted and managed to save the boat they'll be riding it out... everything but the EPIRB will likely be dead.
If the boats still basically sound its the safest place to be.. the most dangerous thing to do is be rescued in heavy weather... or jump into a raft with your ERPIB screaming while you can still keep your boat afloat..
Dunno if anyone's played with a life raft in F5 upwards in a sea... hilarious... as an experiment... necessity something else.
So as I said in the other thread... short of being holed by flotsam or springing a planked she'll likely be floating around till conditions are favourable to do something safely... including setting off the EPIB.
The important thing to remember about an EPIRB is not that you can set it off anytime... knowing the time to set it off is more important.
What I'm saying is in that situation.. if rolled and recovered I would stay with the ship.. everything readied to abandon quickly but the boat is safer than a life raft.. and I would not hit the EPIRB till forced to abandon... a SAR before then is a risk to everyone.
As for losing GPS.. you should know your last position recorded before the 'event'.. compass will give you drift course.. guesstimate speed... when everything settles you'll know roughly where you are related to land and you can DR to your best option as best you can if repairs possible.. or set off your EPIRB.


0.0000000000001/2

[captain58sailin]

Too right boatman61, not everyone thinks that the big red button is the court of 1st resort, when one gets in a bit of a bind. Speaking only for myself, the only time I would send up a flare is when my foot left the top of the mast when stepping up into the life raft. I don't personally ever want to set off the EPIRB, unless in very dire straits indeed. I believe people have gotten way to comfortable thinking they have a safety net to bail them out of some minor trouble.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by captain58sailin

Too right boatman61, not everyone thinks that the big red button is the court of 1st resort, when one gets in a bit of a bind. Speaking only for myself, the only time I would send up a flare is when my foot left the top of the mast when stepping up into the life raft. I don't personally ever want to set off the EPIRB, unless in very dire straits indeed. I believe people have gotten way to comfortable thinking they have a safety net to bail them out of some minor trouble.

Whilst I too am philosophically on that same page - nonetheless that approach does have a downside.........Can go glug when otherwise would not (by over estimating capacity to self rescue until too late to press any help button, at least to do any good)......IMO for self that is a fair enuf "sh#t happens" moment, but arguably a bit unfair on others who have relied on the Skipper to use whatever he has to the best effect.......of course no big red button onboard = no problem (well, apart from the going glug bit ).

[model 10]

Waiting till the last moment to push the "red" button is contrary to lots of safety advice. Doing it while you are somewhat in control of the situation is more prudent. How long before the boat sinks is the question of course but waiting till the mast is out of sight. is to late I think.

[captain58sailin]

I am not advocating hubris, only that it was hammered into my head at a very early age, to be self reliant, think for myself (as long as it didn't diverge from my Father's thinking). Growing up in Alaska there was no other option, if you didn't come in on your own Jack Jones, you were dead, there wasn't going to be any help ever. It is pretty amazing the ingenuity that one can come up with if pushed into a corner.

[Khagan1227]

The Nina had two pieces of high tech equipment on board, a satphone and an epirb. The battery on the epirb is required to last for at least 48 hours.

It is my understanding from all I've read that the Nina was in 50 kt winds and no idea of conditions over the next 48 hours. We also know the storm sails were shredded.

Based on the limited information on conditions aboard the Nina, I'm going to make my decision on my gut feeling. In this case, the vessel pitch poles or rolls, I'm going to hit the epirb.

Why?:

1. I want people to know I have a problem
2. I want the right people to know where I am and which way I'm going.
3. I might not need immediate rescue, but the SAR folks are going to route a ship or helicopter in my direction. If I need help, they will be there or at least on the way, if not, I may have a standby vessel to get me to a safe port somewhere.

Just me.

[s/v Thea]

Once you press the red button and the SAR folk arrive on the scene the most likely outcome is that the boat will be abandoned. Could be the captain is not ready to abandon the Nina

[IdoraKeeper]

Poor Bash.... What did he do to the Nina?

[nimblemotors]

There was just a post recently on a boat that was broadsided with a big wave
that smashed in the side of the boat. Reading the description, you can understand just how quickly the boat can sink before you have time to even realize what happened, let alone do anything about it.

So essentially what I learn from this, an Eprib needs to be water activated and released and have the ability to float up (not stuck inside the boat) so it needs no user action in the case of a knockdown causing damage and sinking. The same for a liferaft.
At least for a monohull that will sink when flooded.

I personally think a boat that will not sink when holed and flooded is best.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by s/v Thea

Once you press the red button and the SAR folk arrive on the scene the most likely outcome is that the boat will be abandoned. Could be the captain is not ready to abandon the Nina

In the US maybe , but elsewhere , rescue does not mean the boat has to be abandoned

Dave

[goboatingnow]

I'm not sure the speculation is useful. IMHO Nina is on the bottom, like any a boat before her.

If here Epirb wasn't float free , there are many situations where the boat is over whelmed so fast that none gets to activate it. It could easily ha e been that the skipper overestimated his ability and that of his boat and persisted too long until it was too late.

Dave