Survey with no sea trial, surveyor on Long Island, NY

[ksuderman]

Ahoy,

I am trying to get out of the wannabes column and we are going to look at a Catalina Morgan 381 this weekend. This will be the fifth boat we have looked at, and I really want this one to be The One... but I've wanted the previous four boats to be The One as well...

Since it is so late in the season the boat is already on the hard and can't be launched until the spring, which will present problems for a sea trial. My thoughts are that if we decide to go ahead with the boat we make an offer (with refundable deposit), get a survey done on land, get the engine checked out, and stipulate a ~15k hold back until we can do a proper sea trial in the spring. Does that sound reasonable? The $15k is based solely on my poorly researched, pull a number out of my arse, estimate of what it would cost to repower the boat.

If that sounds like a reasonable plan I will need a surveyor on (or near) Long Island for the survey; are there any surveyors from L.I. on the forums? Can anyone recommend a good surveyor in New York / Long Island?

Our six year old grandson recently announced that going sailing was his "life long dream" so the pressure is on to get a boat by the spring.

[Tetepare]

$5000 is more likely.

Make sure you get a survey.

[jt11791]

Diesels can be run on the hard. If they want to sell the boat, they'll start it up for you.

[ksuderman]

Originally Posted by jt11791

Diesels can be run on the hard. If they want to sell the boat, they'll start it up for you.

They will start the engine, but can I ask them to run WOT for 10 minutes?

[Jamme]

You may want to check this thread: https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...d.php?t=246409

[TBW]

You really need good legal advice here. Who holds what money if you buy it?
All it costs to start the engine is a few gallons of antifreeze to rewinterize the engine. I run a boat all the time after winterizing it. Drain the muffler, inlet strainer. Different boats winterize differently. Not hard or expensive. Think through where water goes.
But what about the sails? Got caught on that one once. Electronics??

[altinr]

There is no reason you can’t do a Sea trail in early December on Long Island sound, as long as the water isn’t frozen.

[foufou]

I bought a boat this time of year in Maine and we ran the engine on the hard for a half hour We took a garden hose and connected it to the raw water intake and with the hose supplying cooling water you can run it as long as you wish. Then winterize as usual.

[tiopirata]

I am a vessel surveyor. I would not allow a sailing vessel's auxiliary engine to be run for 10 minutes at wide open throttle unless it was still under a new engine warranty. Not afloat and certainly not on the hard. There is no reason to risk damage arising. I imagine the seller may feel the same way.

[Auklet]

Originally Posted by ksuderman

Ahoy,

I am trying to get out of the wannabes column and we are going to look at a Catalina Morgan 381 this weekend. This will be the fifth boat we have looked at, and I really want this one to be The One... but I've wanted the previous four boats to be The One as well...

Since it is so late in the season the boat is already on the hard and can't be launched until the spring, which will present problems for a sea trial. My thoughts are that if we decide to go ahead with the boat we make an offer (with refundable deposit), get a survey done on land, get the engine checked out, and stipulate a ~15k hold back until we can do a proper sea trial in the spring. Does that sound reasonable? The $15k is based solely on my poorly researched, pull a number out of my arse, estimate of what it would cost to repower the boat.

If that sounds like a reasonable plan I will need a surveyor on (or near) Long Island for the survey; are there any surveyors from L.I. on the forums? Can anyone recommend a good surveyor in New York / Long Island?

Our six year old grandson recently announced that going sailing was his "life long dream" so the pressure is on to get a boat by the spring.

This question comes up periodically from potential buyers where you are. For one thing, it’s a good boat and therefore likely a good pick. IMO put down an offer with some earnest money pending sea trial, whenever that is. Just like the typical contract. If the owner accepts then you’re good there. If not, he might counter with an “OK” pending another offer that does not stipulate a sea trial, and give you “first right of refusal” on the new situation. That is, if you want it you have to close your deal now or he proceeds with the other offer. If you punt just remember—there’s always another nice boat, a good deal, sitting out there to come along.

If you have to put it back in the water then you may have to pay for only one way. Haul outs around here are “round trip”. So for you, “back in” could be part of a paid for round trip (no cost to you there). You pay to put it back on the hard but by then it could be your boat!! In any case, buyer often must pay to haul the boat for the survey—so that’s zero sum. However, bank and insurance don’t care about a sea trial. It’s out, you get it surveyed, and you know where your are.

[CarlF]

You're buying an old boat - presumably at a good price that reflects that it's an old boat. Even with a full survey, you'll find plenty wrong over the first 12 months of ownership. And every survey misses things. So don't put too much emphasis on a sea trial.

I think the role of a survey in this old a boat is to find the big stuff. Rot in the decks. Serious structural problems. Past partial sinking. Evidence of serious accident. All of these are better done on the hard.

The most important part of an engine "survey" is whether it will start easily and run without a ridiculous amount of smoke. Does it go into forward and reverse. Does cooling water come out? Does the alternator charge? Does the engine/shaft shake badly? Is the prop shaft bent? Do any fluids drip out? That you can all do on the hard.

The WOT throttle test basically tells you if the boat is overpropped or has a cooling problem. I wouldn't walk away from a boat because of that. At the worst it would be $1000 - and unlikely.

So I think a plan of a low RPM run on the hard is a good one (the hose should not pressurize the cooling - let it fill a bucket and pickup from the bucket).

Be sure the sails are brought out and look them over carefully spread out on a floor. Have the rig inspected.

And try to negotiate some money set aside until the engine can be run at sea - but I wouldn't walk away from an otherwise good boat just for that. It will be easier to negotiate this if it is specific - such as "test that engine can be run at WOT". Not just "sea trial"

The owner will want to be paid to re-winterize the engine afterwards - but that's less than the cost to haul and splash for a sea trial.

[jfischgrund]

If you are estimating repowering with a new diesel, with the cost of installation, 15k is way too low.

[jmschmidt]

Even in expensive places like the BVI a survey with sea trial and haulout should not be much more than $1,500 to $2,000. Oh I forgot the Covid profiteers are running wild, better hold on to your wallet. These people should be arrested and charged with price gouging during a national and international emergency. If todays politicians had any guts they would be.

[jmschmidt]

PS: And if the people had any guts they would demand it.

[basssears]

Stating the obvious but aside from this boats specific condition (i.e. survey) do you know this is the model you want? We bought our Gulf 33 without sailing it because we'd sailed a previous one we looked at and knew we liked how it sailed, so just don't forget part of reason for sea trial is to judge the model itself (no sellers don't like to hear that, yes it is reality). -- Bass