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Old 17-04-2021, 19:45   #1
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Solar Powered Yachts & Cruising

Solar yachts for cruising, one even crossed the Atlantic. Prices are dropping. There are now hybrid solar and wind. How much will it replace sailboats?

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Old 17-04-2021, 20:42   #2
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Re: Solar Powered Yachts & Cruising

It may replace a motorboat ..but if you have to ask about replacing sailboats then you really know very little about why one sails. What is the old saying..."when you motorboat you are in a hurry to get there, when you sail you are already there".

Abe
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Old 17-04-2021, 23:06   #3
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Re: Solar Powered Yachts & Cruising

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Originally Posted by sailingabe41ds View Post
if you have to ask about replacing sailboats then you really know very little about why one sails.
My question was "How much will it replace sailboats?" not if it will replace sailboats. We will likely see more solar-sail hybrids like in this video. Electric motors are half the size of diesel and run most of the day on just sunshine. Quiet, too. As solar power comes down in price they will become more common.
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Old 18-04-2021, 00:08   #4
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Re: Solar Powered Yachts & Cruising

I for one don’t understand your question ,why would electric drive replace a sail boat,a good set of sails will last many years ,batteries less so Plus the ride in a boat under sail in any sort of wind or sea state is far easier than a motor vsl of the same size.⛵️⚓️
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Old 18-04-2021, 00:18   #5
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Re: Solar Powered Yachts & Cruising

This is the Bernie Madoff pitch. It says 'you can motor around all day on the solar panels" (if you want to go at a snails pace). It shows the boat motoring on its 10kwh battery bank, using over 10 times the panel output. It doesn't tell you that the boat's battery bank is only good for about two hours at that rate, and then you have to wait a week to recharge the battery.

The current reality is highlighted in the thread

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...at-230144.html

The last part of the thread is devoted to the failure and abandonment of this high dollar project.
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Old 18-04-2021, 06:56   #6
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Re: Solar Powered Yachts & Cruising

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Originally Posted by Searles View Post
why would electric drive replace a sail boat, a good set of sails will last many years
Because some places have very little wind and a lot of sun. What people miss in this thread is I am speculating about the future. Solar panel prices keep dropping. There is more and more power per square foot.

People keep arguing about the situation at the moment, the real question will be where will solar cells be 10 years from now.
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Old 18-04-2021, 08:26   #7
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Re: Solar Powered Yachts & Cruising

Quote:
Originally Posted by zamber View Post
Because some places have very little wind and a lot of sun. What people miss in this thread is I am speculating about the future. Solar panel prices keep dropping. There is more and more power per square foot.

People keep arguing about the situation at the moment, the real question will be where will solar cells be 10 years from now.
You are young,(are I am right). for 10 years solar panels doesn't price drop or efficiency gain more of 5-10% now is a solar panel cheapest in all history time. solar module efficiency is on physical law maximum 22+% In china 355-365/425-435W Mono PERC Module around 20%+ efficiency (USD) cost +- 80 $
rest price what you see in your local shop is transport+sales profit+tax+ import duty and you must pay gay in top of food chain he ussualy collect 20-30%. But soon price must go up to 50-100% because container shipping price is 1000% more expensive from last year from 1000$ 20ft container come to 10000$ + port fee.

when I look at this catamaran from the video this is an amateur job. even the colour of the protective backsheet can affect efficiency. A black backsheet might look more aesthetically pleasing, but it absorbs more heat resulting in higher cell temperature which increases resistance, this in turn slightly reduces total conversion efficiency. When I see stack solar panel to deck on sun very soon this solar panel die also Photovoltaic modules are tested at a temperature of 25 degrees C (STC) – about 77 degrees F., and depending on their installed location, heat can reduce output efficiency by 10-30%.Also solar panel manufacture for warranty after 1 year (in EU trade warranty)ask lot question who make installation, location if you install to 7000 meter from sea,o noooo some material warranties are voided if installed in marine regions.
SunPower – PV panel warranty exclusions include installations “in locations, which in SunPower’s absolute judgment may be subject to direct contact with bodies of salt water.” The IEC 61701 test is listed on some data sheets.
LG – IEC 61701 test listed on some spec sheets, but their general warranty voids panels subject to damage and/or failure due to rust and direct contact with salt water.
Lumos – IEC 61701 test not listed on specification sheets. The Lumos panel warranty is void for installations in locations subject to and damage/corrosion resulting from direct contact with salt water.
Panasonic – panels IEC 61701 tested but not warrantied for marine installations (such as boats), or damage or corrosion resulting from direct contact with salt water such as ocean spray, or damage from rust.
Hyundai – warranty not specific but refers to their installation manual in which they state “modules shall not be installed in salty area within 500m from a body of salt water and/or area where salty winds hit directly. When modules are installed 7km from a body of salt water, the installer should check salt damage of the installed area.” Their data sheets state the panels have passed harsh salt mist tests, though they don’t site the IEC 61701 test specifically.

Mounting solar panel on home Deck 10+ km from sea all panel void warranty
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Old 18-04-2021, 08:48   #8
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Re: Solar Powered Yachts & Cruising

When solar PV material can be made into bimini's and even sails so your average sailboat has tens of sq meters of generation capacity without overloading on rigid panels or when someone cracks the Solar PV paint that can be applied to the deck to charge your battery banks then electric boats will be a reliable option.

That said there are many manufacturers already producing effective electric powered boats, both sail and motor cruiser, that have almost the same range as a 200litre diesel tank and a 40hp engine. The thing with an electric motor is it generates far more torque and throughout the range so you can use a smaller motor to get the same performance and far less moving parts to worry about. As for the weight of batteries, well consider the large lump of cast iron you can get rid of and the 150kg of diesel.

As solar technology, battery technology and general technology develops I'm pretty sure the electric motor will replace the liquid fuel engine and if that means we have to sail more and only use our motors to manoeuvre in and around marina and harbour then so be it. And most harbours or marinas have mains plug in points so getting a charge isn't going to be that difficult for the vast majority of cruisers.
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Old 18-04-2021, 14:49   #9
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Re: Solar Powered Yachts & Cruising

Quote:
Originally Posted by zamber View Post
Because some places have very little wind and a lot of sun. What people miss in this thread is I am speculating about the future. Solar panel prices keep dropping. There is more and more power per square foot.

People keep arguing about the situation at the moment, the real question will be where will solar cells be 10 years from now.

Sure, let's speculate about the future. In the future there will still be cloudy days, sometimes many in a row. The best future solar panels will not produce significant power on rainy days. For off-the-grid cruisers, and not day-sailors, you may find a hybrid system to be practical, same as with cars. Diesel gensets will be used, coupled to the main DC motor for use on cloudy days when there is little wind and to recharge batteries anytime. Lots of solar for those sunny days of course.

Having a choice of power source is always a good thing, especially in emergencies when waiting is not an option.
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Old 18-04-2021, 16:33   #10
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Re: Solar Powered Yachts & Cruising

The bottom line is that we collectively need to reduce our CO2 footprint. The improvements in PV systems will most likely be driven by on shore developments, more so than the marine environment as the market on shore is much larger. However, the marine world does have lots of innovators so we should welcome any and all attempts to try something different.
Personally, I believe that legislation that penalizes oil based fuel usage and /or encourages alternatives, will be the big game changer.
I recall that in the 1970's the accepted view was that 4 stroke outboards would never make it to market.Too big, too heavy, too expensive, blah blah blah. Then California introduced legislation on emissions. Suddenly 4 stroke outboards were being made by every one. Amazing eh?
The biggest hill we need to get over is the dung heap of the vested interests.
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Old 18-04-2021, 23:49   #11
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Re: Solar Powered Yachts & Cruising

The main pest on earth are people who want the NEW things instead of refurbishing the old one's until it is impossible. Everything we produce has it's footprint - so why the hell produce more than we already have and always scrap down what we have got?

Btw. LIFEPO4 has about 50% of the footprint in production and yu can not really recycle thes cells. Yes they say but the fact's of their recyclings are staggering.

Almost all Ecar producers offer you 160.000 km or 8 years warranty.
My years total ist 10.000 km and the batteries are done at 120.000 km / 12 years.
The break even point for a better footprint between Diesel and E is 240.000 km but what they did NOT include is the fact that one needs 2 battery packs so the electric propulsion is 50% more harmful than diesels.

Diesels: imagine 2 people driving in a small eco-diesel.
the CO2 emission is the same as if the 2 persons would sprint along.

Economics boating:
My good old diesel does 200 litres a year = 50 NM
I will always refurbish it but a replacement (FOOTPRINT) would be around 20.000 USD
Going electric is 25.000 USD for the basics and another 25.000 USD for the proper
genset and chargers. (A double up of the FOOTPRINT)

So if you want to go electric do not forget your spare 4x AAA cells.

Solar: So what? A rule of thumb is 150Wp per square meter. IF you are lucky (This is maximum! usually it is only 20-25%) you harvest 75Wx8 hrs = 600Wday(0,6 kW but you need 20 kW for your motor.



With the required 33 m and one day's harvest you will be able to drive ONE HOUR but people on smaller boats having trouble to earn their required 12Ah x 24 0 = 288 Ah per day.

come fly me to the moon....


Admin PLEASE stick this to every new Blah Blah thread about Solar/E-powered/AC scrap. Despite of the life threatening risks to have +36V on board and no spare power in strong currents.
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Old 19-04-2021, 00:04   #12
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Re: Solar Powered Yachts & Cruising

For natures sake: so we should NOT welcome any and all attempts to try something different.
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Old 19-04-2021, 00:24   #13
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Re: Solar Powered Yachts & Cruising

Quote:
Originally Posted by zamber View Post
Solar yachts for cruising, one even crossed the Atlantic. Prices are dropping. There are now hybrid solar and wind. How much will it replace sailboats?

Your later responses don't seem to follow the premise of your statement in the first post.

It won't replace sailboats as most people buy sailboats to sail, as in put up pieces of cloth to catch the wind. Maybe the auxiliary power plant and its fuel that is used to drive the propeller, when you can't sail and need to move, will change in the future.

Even if you assume 100% conversion of sunlight into electricity in the tropics you will still need a lot of solar panel area to achieve reasonable range and speed. (You can plug 100% in place of 25% in one of the earlier responses.)
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Old 19-04-2021, 08:54   #14
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Re: Solar Powered Yachts & Cruising

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Originally Posted by kas_1611 View Post
That said there are many manufacturers already producing effective electric powered boats, both sail and motor cruiser, that have almost the same range as a 200litre diesel tank and a 40hp engine.
My auxiliary diesel with a 200 liter tank has a range of 300 to 400 miles, at 6 to 5 knots. Can you name ONE eboat with that range, or even half that range.
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Old 19-04-2021, 09:24   #15
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Re: Solar Powered Yachts & Cruising

kas_1611 -hell, did you read my post?
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