Rebel Heart Crew Suing.....

[Fog Bank]

The Discovery phase will be interesting to say the least.

[Kenomac]

Apparently, the Kaufmans were able to find a lawyer who either hadn't read or didn't know of any of their blogs or sailing forum posts.

They also had an SSB radio onboard; who's next on the list of who will be sued? The person who installed the SSB?

[SaucySailoress]

They bought and carries a satphone so they could use it in emergencies, such as if a child got sick. The phone was cut off leaving them without communications at sea.

Guys, they activated the EPIRB in order to save their daughter's life because the company cut their line without reasonable notice. They had to pull the plug because of that.

Perhaps they would have had to evacuate anyway, but they'll never have the opportunity to find out, cos the emergency satphone the carried for emergencies didn't work in an emergency, and that was clearly the provider's error. And a dangerous one.

I also hope the provider settles out of court to the tune of a replacement boat and the cost of the rescue. The Kaufmann's shouldn't need to sue on this one, I think the company should be proactive in settling this.

I mean, I don't want a satphone that cuts out when I am mid ocean, so I won't be using Iridium ever if they don't acknowledge their error.

[Ex-Calif]

This may not be about a law suit at all...

I worry about my cynicism sometimes but this could just be about extending the news cycle and gettin' paid for interviews.

I have long lived on an axiom of, "Don't pay too much attention to what people say. Watch what they do."

What happened to them sucked and the community largely supported them. They must know that this "new" twist is going to be controversial.

[Palarran]

Originally Posted by SaucySailoress

Guys, they activated the EPIRB in order to save their daughter's life

I'm not sure this is a fact. There where a hell of a lot of issues going on at the time. One thing for sure though is that if the daughter was so ill, and they did contact a doctor, the results would have been exactly the same.

One other thing that will come out is testimony from the rescue group. That will be really interesting. And I would guess this won't even come close to a trial. It costs a lot of money to wage a battle and the Kaufmans don't have it and the lawyer isn't going to risk his on this case, IMO.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Ex-Calif

This may not be about a law suit at all...

I worry about my cynicism sometimes but this could just be about extending the news cycle and gettin' paid for interviews.

The first thing I thought too.

Another issue:

Has it come to this point in America, where anytime some fool decides to head out into the woods on a hike and manages to get lost, he or she can then sue their cell phone company when the phone doesn't work for whatever the reason (didn't pay their bill, no coverage, phone is broken, dropped it in a puddle, messed up SIM card).... because their weekend adventure was spoiled by a costly rescue?

[bobconnie]

Never had a Sat Phone, never will have one ! But I have had kid's aboard! and I salute Rebel for having the gut's to put his childs life before his dreams! I've met to many guy's who would have sent his wife and the other kid's off so he could keep on going !! We had to make a few course changes to get a sick child to some one better able to care for them ! And wished at some of those times, that I had chosen a less dangerous lifestyle ! But they all came thru all right! and don't seem to hate me ,at least to much LOLOL. For us, Rebel made a very tough call and he has my pat on his back for being a real man ! By my standards! I believe he made a good decision for his family !! Thumbs up to ya Rebel

[Fog Bank]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Has it come to this point in America, where anytime some fool decides to head out into the woods on a hike and manages to get lost, he or she can then sue their cell phone company when the phone doesn't work for whatever the reason (didn't pay their bill, no coverage, phone is broken, dropped it in a puddle, messed up SIM card).... because their weekend adventure was spoiled by a costly rescue?

Sadly, it certainly seems that point arrived long ago.

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by SaucySailoress

They bought and carries a satphone so they could use it in emergencies, such as if a child got sick. The phone was cut off leaving them without communications at sea.

Guys, they activated the EPIRB in order to save their daughter's life because the company cut their line without reasonable notice. They had to pull the plug because of that.

Perhaps they would have had to evacuate anyway, but they'll never have the opportunity to find out, cos the emergency satphone the carried for emergencies didn't work in an emergency, and that was clearly the provider's error. And a dangerous one.

I also hope the provider settles out of court to the tune of a replacement boat and the cost of the rescue. The Kaufmann's shouldn't need to sue on this one, I think the company should be proactive in settling this.

I mean, I don't want a satphone that cuts out when I am mid ocean, so I won't be using Iridium ever if they don't acknowledge their error.

I'm with you entirely. These armchair sailors that get a kicking out of finding fault without bothering to check facts, will never approach anything to do with this case with anything other than their armchair bias. They live to knock others.

In this day and age of Sat phone taking over from HF, then I'd be pretty pissed off if the provider cancelled my sim and posted me another without even warning me. Because 'yes', I'd relying on the thing for emergency's. And of course, for those who bothered to listen and learn the facts, the boat did not sink because of any faults, dry rot, electrical or water ingress etc etc. Further advice from the Doctor on the phone could well have resolved the issue so they could have continued.

But, arm chairing being arm chairing..

[Ex-Calif]

It appears Mr. Dan Gilleon will be the attorney of record.

https://twitter.com/CaptEricKaufman

"Air Force troops who rescued my clients at sea when their phone co. deactivated SIM card while their baby was sick "

And with my cynicism meter on high gain -

"Eric Kaufman @CaptEricKaufman · Apr 27
Are we yesterday's news yet? Has society found something else to entertain themselves with?"

[Coops]

Originally Posted by tedsherrin

I'm with you entirely. These armchair sailors that get a kicking out of finding fault without bothering to check facts, will never approach anything to do with this case with anything other than their armchair bias. They live to knock others.

In this day and age of Sat phone taking over from HF, then I'd be pretty pissed off if the provider cancelled my sim and posted me another without even warning me. Because 'yes', I'd relying on the thing for emergency's. And of course, for those who bothered to listen and learn the facts, the boat did not sink because of any faults, dry rot, electrical or water ingress etc etc. Further advice from the Doctor on the phone could well have resolved the issue so they could have continued.

But, arm chairing being arm chairing..

I think there is a case for criticising the "arm chairing" side of it and there are plenty of knockers. However, if you want to keep pushing your face onto the TV and other media instead of just going about it quietly and without fanfare, then I personally feel that they should not be protected from this.

If you choose to live your life like a reality show, and seem intent on self publicity/promotion, then you have to accept that some folks are going to be completely disillusioned with the reasons why you would do this and they are entitled to say so.

Coops.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Coops

I think there is a case for criticising the "arm chairing" side of it and there are plenty of knockers. However, if you want to keep pushing your face onto the TV and other media instead of just going about it quietly and without fanfare, then I personally feel that they should not be protected from this.

If you choose to live your life like a reality show, and seem intent on self publicity/promotion, then you have to accept that some folks are going to be completely disillusioned with the reasons why you would do this and they are entitled to say so.

Coops.

Agree 100%.

Regarding others folks comments on the "armchair knockers... we have 2 SAT phones (neither of which currently have service), an SSB radio, three VHF radios and three cell phones on board our boat. If I decided to head out across a 3000 mile stretch of ocean... basically sailing alone on my very first offshore adventure, I wouldn't consider it the responsibility of my SAT phone company to keep me safe.

We are hardly armchair types, since we are out "doing it," cruising from place to place, 6 months of the year.

Ken

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by Coops

I think there is a case for criticising the "arm chairing" side of it and there are plenty of knockers. However, if you want to keep pushing your face onto the TV and other media instead of just going about it quietly and without fanfare, then I personally feel that they should not be protected from this.

If you choose to live your life like a reality show, and seem intent on self publicity/promotion, then you have to accept that some folks are going to be completely disillusioned with the reasons why you would do this and they are entitled to say so.

Coops.

Coops, I'd usually agree with you entirely if it was for many other situations other than the Rebel Heart family. But, in this case the family were given a hell of a beating in other CF posts for not being more public, not being interviewed, not responding to criticism. It's as if the poor sods can't step a foot right. If they don't make a public statement or respond to demands on CF and other forums then the arm chair sailors attack them for that. And then in the very rare occasion they do make a public response, well wow, they are now accused of self publicity and seeking the fanfare. This family have deliberately decided not to live their lives like a 'reality tv show', so what's the response as so as they do make a comment, seek to explain something, or even post a blog on 'their' FB page, then their accused of publicity seeking. Damned if they do, damned If they don't.

[Coops]

Fair enough, but it just seems so organised and planned lately.

Coops.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by tedsherrin

Coops, I'd usually agree with you entirely if it was for many other situations other than the Rebel Heart family. But, in this case the family were given a hell of a beating in other CF posts for not being more public, not being interviewed, not responding to criticism. It's as if the poor sods can't step a foot right. If they don't make a public statement or respond to demands on CF and other forums then the arm chair sailors attack them for that. And then in the very rare occasion they do make a public response, well wow, they are now accused of self publicity and seeking the fanfare. This family have deliberately decided not to live their lives like a 'reality tv show', so what's the response as so as they do make a comment, seek to explain something, or even post a blog on 'their' FB page, then their accused of publicity seeking. Damned if they do, damned If they don't.

I have so far avoided making any comment on this story, but kind of can't helpmyself at this point.

This is a very trenchant comment, I think, and I agree with it. Having the spotlight of publicity shined on you is a weird thing, and the Kaufmanns sure got the full glare of it. It is really not so simple or binary as either "stay out of view", on the one hand, or "live your life like a reality show" on the other. When the whole country wants to know your story, it is sometimes the right thing to do to just tell it, so that at least your version of the story gets told at all, and this is not necessarily equivalent to exhibitionism. Whether Eric was just doing his best with the hand dealt to him, or whether he was trying to exploit the situation for material gain or narcissitic purposes, or some combination of all of these -- we really just can't know this. I prefer to give him some kind of benefit of the doubt and keep my own mouth shut.

Armchair quarterbacking of disasters is surely one of the most popular uses of Internet forums. There is nothing wrong with it -- up to a point. That's because those of us who might someday find ourselves in similar situations can actually learn a lot from the misfortunes and mistakes of others, and thinking through all the various scenarios -- "what if instead of this, he had done that" -- and debating them with others, is actually very useful for our own knowledge and preparedness. But once this spills over into (and inevitably someone starts) "oh what an idiot; can you believe he did that", then it stops being educational and starts being something uglier and less useful.