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Old 25-11-2022, 17:13   #1
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Realistic length measurements are needed.

A few years ago our 32' flybridge boat was docked next to a new 36' boat of the same basic design. Quite to our surprise, we noticed that both boats were the same (within a couple inches) end to end length. Why the difference? Our anchor pulpit and swim platform were bolted on and his were molded in. He paid for a 36' boat and we had bought a 32 but the boats were the same size when measured without the pulpit and swim platform. He paid thousands more for a 36' boat without realizing that he really had a boat which would have been listed as a 32 had the measurements been realistic. We had bolts to attach the pulpit and platform but his boat had resin. That resin was incredibly profitable for the manufacturer.

We now have a 43 which was docked next to a 39 last month. They looked similar in length, so we measured them. My 43 is about five inches longer than the 39 which had a bolted swim platform and anchor pulpit.

As we walk around marinas and take a close look at various designs, it's interesting that what would be a 28' (WLL) boat if it had a relatively plumb bow has become a 36 and sold as such due to an overly long stiletto bow and another couple feet of molded-in anchor pulpit. Also, a boat may be only 35' 7" but it's listed as a 36. And don't forget the occasionally used method of measuring boats along the gunnels rather than centerline. It seems as though nautical consumers may be paying for several feet of boat that they aren't getting. We can buy a dozen donuts and be assured that 12 will be in the box but can't be quite so sure of the numbers when we buy a boat. That needs to change. It's time truth in advertising was applied to boats rather than allow the manufacturers to be innovative with their measurements.
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Old 25-11-2022, 20:03   #2
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Re: Realistic length measurements are needed.

Descriptive lengths of boats names are just numbers and can mean almost anything. Anyone who makes a decision on buying a boat based on such numbers is an idiot.


There are many terms concerning vessel length, such as Length Overall (LOA), Length on Deck (LOD), Length of Hull(LOH), Waterline Length(LWL) - not to mention LOS/LE, LPB , LLoyd's Length, Register Length,...


Not only that but LOA had an "old" and a "new" meaning Your first sentence is an example of that.

LOA used to fit your "32ft" description, but one current legal definition is "LOA means the length overall of the Boat, including fenders, bowsprits, boarding ladders, davits including their loads, stern drives, out drives, rudders, anchors, pulpits, push pits and any other extension fore and/or aft of the Boat.
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Old 25-11-2022, 22:39   #3
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Re: Realistic length measurements are needed.

I know of quite a number of owners who change the model stickers to a lesser length; means cheaper marina berth fees.
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Old 25-11-2022, 23:55   #4
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Re: Realistic length measurements are needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Mathis View Post
We can buy a dozen donuts and be assured that 12 will be in the box but can't be quite so sure of the numbers when we buy a boat. That needs to change...
It probably only needs to change if you get 11 boat donuts, instead of 13.
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Old 26-11-2022, 02:08   #5
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Re: Realistic length measurements are needed.

you have heard of marketing, right ?

on the other hand, our previous cat was officially 12m long...but had davits added so marinas insisted on charging as for a 13m boat

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Old 26-11-2022, 15:13   #6
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Re: Realistic length measurements are needed.

In the SF bay area nobody cares how long the boat is. You pay for a slip that the boat does not overhang bow or stern and all that is attached to it.
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Old 26-11-2022, 21:20   #7
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Re: Realistic length measurements are needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce K View Post
I know of quite a number of owners who change the model stickers to a lesser length; means cheaper marina berth fees.
HAHAHA yeah my current boat is actually 45' but nominally it is a 44' and my marina lets you be 10% over the slip length designation, and the only slip open when I brought the boat home was a 40. I managed to fly under the radar until a 45 came open on my old pier but it was an extra $100 or so per quarter. However the boat is so wide that the standard width 40 was really tight. My new extra wide 45'er gives me lots of wiggle room and it is worth the extra dough.
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Old 26-11-2022, 23:13   #8
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Thumbs up Re: Realistic length measurements are needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Mathis View Post
It's time truth in advertising was applied to boats rather than allow the manufacturers to be innovative with their measurements.
Truth in advertising, now there's a novel idea.
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Old 27-11-2022, 00:38   #9
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Re: Realistic length measurements are needed.

Particularly novel when it comes to selling boats.
The truth? Please no. What kind of bloody masochist would ever want that? A sea of delusion is all that keeps my boat afloat.
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Old 27-11-2022, 00:53   #10
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Realistic length measurements are needed.

In doing my tonnage cert I used the exact 11.1 m measurement. This year that 0.1m cost me an extra grand. Lesson learned for future tonnage measurements. ( round down !!!)!!!

Shorter is always better !!!!
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Old 27-11-2022, 19:39   #11
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Re: Realistic length measurements are needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StuM View Post
LOA used to fit your "32ft" description, but one current legal definition is "LOA means the length overall of the Boat, including fenders, bowsprits, boarding ladders, davits including their loads, stern drives, out drives, rudders, anchors, pulpits, push pits and any other extension fore and/or aft of the Boat.
Interesting.
Here in the US, in the section of the CFRs for "Definitions", the "Length overall" is, (paraphrasing,) "From the forwardmost point of the stem to the aftermost point of the stern post"
And appurtenances such as bowsprits/railings/outboard rudders/boomkins/pushpits/pulpits etc. are NOT part of LOA.
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Old 28-11-2022, 00:04   #12
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Re: Realistic length measurements are needed.

Always depends on whose charging you !
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Old 28-11-2022, 00:23   #13
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Re: Realistic length measurements are needed.

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Originally Posted by Bowdrie View Post
Interesting.
Here in the US, in the section of the CFRs for "Definitions", the "Length overall" is, (paraphrasing,) "From the forwardmost point of the stem to the aftermost point of the stern post"
And appurtenances such as bowsprits/railings/outboard rudders/boomkins/pushpits/pulpits etc. are NOT part of LOA.
Just curious, Is the last sentence there your interpretation or some official ruling?
Most marinas Im familiar with charge by the foot, including any kind of extremities, regardless of what/how the manufacturer calls their boat.
IMO, thats totally fair. A 40 boat with a 3 bowsprit in a 40 slip will present a distinct headache hazard to persons walking down the pier!
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Old 28-11-2022, 03:14   #14
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Re: Realistic length measurements are needed.

Nothing new. Been that way for decades.

Bolt on swim platforms in particular can be after market additions or options offered by the manufacturer, so the same model could have different lengths depending on what you added. I think cast into the hull started to become the primary option when obtaining teak became cost prohibitive.

Did your friend with the 36 actually pay more for the exact same boat of the same vintage or as is more likely, did you buy an older boat with bolt on parts while he had a newer boat with cast in place parts and the age or brand quality is more likely the cost difference?

Yes, there is a marketing aspect but if you look up the specs (which are almost always readily available), it's fairly straight forward to get the real info, so only an idiot would be tricked into buying the wrong length.

PS: Yes, it's all over the place in terms of how marinas and yards charge for length. For slips, most will accept the number on the side if it fits in the slip, though a few will go so far as to use a tape measure. Of course, that's a different subject.
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Old 28-11-2022, 03:47   #15
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Re: Realistic length measurements are needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kapnd View Post
Just curious, Is the last sentence there your interpretation or some official ruling?

Most marinas Im familiar with charge by the foot, including any kind of extremities, regardless of what/how the manufacturer calls their boat.

IMO, thats totally fair. A 40 boat with a 3 bowsprit in a 40 slip will present a distinct headache hazard to persons walking down the pier!


Most marinas here use the official ships tonnage papers as the official length
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