Questions about Refit Costs

[NewAlexandria]

Let's assume I'm an idiot, and I know nothing about boats, so don't make fun of me. But let's also assume I can build a beautiful house, car, or anything I want, and I want to rebuild a boat to my liking. More, I have land and garages in the jungle of Florida. The "HOW" is easy for me, but the approach of things in "boating" is completely new to me. I don't need much help just general idea of how you guys do things.

Here is the rough setup:


1. Boat is Westsail 32.
2. The amount of work I want to do would be hard to do at someone else's place or dock.
3. Work would be on the outside and inside of the boat. Entire thing restored to museum quality and beyond (We have been restoring motorcycles for museums since late 70's)


Now the difficult Questions:
1. What roughly would it cost to transport something like this to my property? I'm 20 minutes from Atlantic Ocean.
2. What would it cost to make it stand on my property? I'm assuming I can do this myself. Am I wrong?
3. Am I missing a better approach to this?

Not trying to by cocky, but I'm authentic in order to avoid posts that say "this is not possible", "or you wont be able to do this", "or look for a boat that is ready to sail". That is not the point here. This is a pure learning from others type of post. Money is no issue when it comes to restoration, but allocating money is a problem. If it costs me $15,000 to bring her from the ocean into my house and then back, then maybe I need to reconsider, and use resources better. Paying $20,000 or $15,000 for a boat and moving her for the same amount seems off to me.

[thomm225]

Considering that a friend of mine recently sold his Westsail 32 for around $28,000 your cost would probably double that.

When he sold the boat, it was ready to sail and with a working Perkins diesel and a spare.

He almost sold it to me for $15,000 but I thought that was too low and told him so several times. Plus I have a boat .......but wish I had bought his Westsail 32 at times.

So you might want to look around for a Westsail 32 or some other boat that is ready to sail.

[neilpride]

Hi , I don't assume anything, but we would like to assume what we are talking about, westasail 32? engine, rig, hull, sails condition plumbing , DC,, etc,,,,

15000 $ to lif the boat and put it in your backyard? What distance are we talking about? If you specify a little better I think everyone can give you an objective idea.

[tkeithlu]

When you are just getting started is not the time to buy a project boat at any price. First, it will end up costing a lot more than you thought - the owner lowered the price because it was not economical for him to repair it and then sell it. Second, you will spend all your time, weekends and the like - that you should be spending out becoming a proficient sailor in your driveway working on your boat.

To start, buy something ready to sail. Go sailing. If later, you want to add a project for the weekends that you can't go sailing, OK, that's worth considering.

Welcome to the forum, and best wishes on your future sailing.

[boatman61]

Transportation costs I suggest you contact the people who transport boats professionally.. https://yachttrucking.com/request-a-quote/
Cost to restore a West sail 32 to original condition and specs... how long is a piece of string.
I am assuming this is not with the idea of personally taking up sailing, more a labour of love so skip the sailing school suggestions.
If it was just to sail you'd likely only want her ready to sail standard not to museum standard.
You can set up stands yourself, set blocks of timber on the ground for her keel to sit on then either use lengths of timber as props or fabricate/buy purpose designed props.
A visit to a boatyard will be beneficial as you can see how it's done.

[wholybee]

I would assume similar rules apply to motorcycles, that is is far cheaper to buy a restored motorcycle than to restore one yourself. So with that in mind, I assume you expect restoring a Westsail 32 will cost 2-3 times as much as buying one that is perfect.

Even so, many people choose to do this because then they get to choose how everything is built, etc. So, I don't think it unreasonable for you to want to do this, as long as you know the expense.

The only way you can know how much it will cost to move is to get some estimates. The specifics of your location, the roads the boat needs to travel, and where other jobs for the trucking company are would all come into play. $10k is not out of the question. But it could be much less if the trucking company is in the area and needs the work.

[Cheechako]

Get a trucking cost from a trucker that has the hydraulic trailer. His distance will be from the boatyard of your choosing.
Get a price to haul and demast your boat by the boatyard. Add on storage for a week or two so you can measure the hull and then build a cradle to hold the boat at home.
Build a cradle for your boat.
or... go to some yards and see if they have any old extra stands to sell.

Just a wild guess would be under $10,000 total.

[TrentePieds]

Alexandria:

To those of us who like sailing, restoration (beyond sound maintenance) holds no charms and has no practical purpose. Two things to consider: a) Cost, b) Utility. A sound, well-kept boat half a century old has just as much utility as a brand-new boat. A fifty-year-old Westsail 32 is in many people's opinion a far sounder vessel, from a naval architect's perspective and from a seafaring man's perspective, than is a brand-new boat out of France or Germany.

To those who like restoring, the world looks entirely different. Sailing/seafaring is a triviality. The large sums of money it costs to restore a boat is the cost of pursuing a hobby that is of an entirely different nature from that of seafaring. The cost offers no utility apart from psychic satisfaction. There are people who like restoring antique clocks. They don't do it because the need to know the time, any more than boat restorers do it because they want to go sailing.

The choice is yours. Make it with your eyes open. There is no middle ground!

As for costs: The is no way that I, here in British Columbia, could possibly know what costs and availability of materials and services are in NJ. So I can't help you there. You have to contact your local suppliers and service providers, but I'm sure you already know that.

TrentePieds

[MicHughV]

I've been thru' this exercise. It's no cheap affair. It will require crane service to get the mast down and a truck with lowboy bed. Plus off course, the use of the travel lift to put it on the trailer. The route will have to be planned in advance....no low bridges, etc.
Some roads require special permits for heavy loads. Or wide wide loads. Keep in mind the typical lane width in the US is 12', sometimes with shoulder, other times not. The truck may be required to have a vehicle in front of it and behind it.
The moving truck must be able to get your project site, so it can't be behind a house or some other non-accessible area.

Once you get to the project site. it will require another crane to get it off.

I enclose a pic of the move above.

Good luck

[MicHughV]

Oh yeah, I forgot, I had to get the local utility company to remove some overhead electrical lines.....just another thing to plan for...

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by NewAlexandria

1. What roughly would it cost to transport something like this to my property? I'm 20 minutes from Atlantic Ocean.

The going rate is around $3 a mile for longer hauls. If you're only transporting it 20 miles they will quote you something that factors in load and unload time. You would have to call some haulers. There may be some costs for oversize permits. It would have to be lawful to haul a load of that size and weight on whatever road or street you live on.


I would not think it would be prohibitively expensive.

2. What would it cost to make it stand on my property? I'm assuming I can do this myself. Am I wrong?

Ideally you would place it on a hard surface (concrete/asphalt or at least firm gravel) and use boat stands. Brownell is the maker everyone uses. You will need around 8 or 10 of them. They're around $300 each, new. You can buy used ones. You can sell them once you're done with them if you don't want to keep them to use for winter storage.



Alternatively, you can have a cradle made, which will be more stable. Or purchase a used cradle and have it adapted to the dimensions of your boat. Costs are roughly similar to stands. You can pick up stands one at a time and put them in your pickup truck, a cradle has to be loaded by a forklift.


I suppose you could make a cradle. People do. I see homemade wood ones from time to time. I'm not sure you would save much money.

3. Am I missing a better approach to this?

No, but you may want to check local ordinances and zoning.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by NewAlexandria

Let's assume I'm an idiot, and I know nothing about boats, so don't make fun of me. But let's also assume I can build a beautiful house, car, or anything I want.

The standards for building/rebuilding a boat are completely different than building a car, a house or a motorcycle are completely different. I've done them all.

PM me an email address and I'll send you the ABYC marine construction standards. It will take 3 emails.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

I've been thru' this exercise. It's no cheap affair. It will require crane service to get the mast down and a truck with lowboy bed. Plus off course, the use of the travel lift to put it on the trailer. The route will have to be planned in advance....no low bridges, etc.
Some roads require special permits for heavy loads. Or wide wide loads. Keep in mind the typical lane width in the US is 12', sometimes with shoulder, other times not. The truck may be required to have a vehicle in front of it and behind it.
The moving truck must be able to get your project site, so it can't be behind a house or some other non-accessible area.

The OP is asking about a Westsail 32. They are not large. 32' long, 11' beam, probably 11' vertical clearance, 20,000 pounds.


Mast service costs vary by marina but should not be more than a few hundred dollars.


Ordinarily, oversize permits are routinely issued in most areas for loads up to 12'6" wide. IIRC In most states no escort is required for loads 12'6" and narrower. Standard vertical clearance on U.S. roadways is 14' although anything over 13'6" requires a permit; a Westsail 32 on a hydraulic trailer should be less than 13'6".

Once you get to the project site. it will require another crane to get it off.

Most haulers and some marinas and boatyards have hydraulic trailers available that are street/highway legal and that can pick a boat off stands or out of the water, and place the boat on stands or in the water, without requiring a crane. Depending on the design and construction of the cradle, they can get the boat on and off a cradle too.

[Lee Jerry]

Good advice in the above posts, but let me add a little food for thought. In reverse order:

3. (a) If you intend to work this full time, maybe with a helper or two, and crank it out in six months to a year, then it may be more cost effective to find a DIY yard and just do the work there. Afterall, you'd probably only be about 30 minutes away. If on the other hand, it's more of a weekend / occasional evening hobby thing that will take multiple years, then bringing it to your property looks much more attractive. The savings on not paying yard fees will offset some of the transportation costs of the boat. And you'll also save your travel time, even only 30 min each way starts to add up.

3. (b) If you're working in the "jungle of FL" then you may want to figure out some type of enclosure or at least covering. If you can find a hydraulic trailer (example attached) you might be able to get it into one of the garages you mention. Or place next to one and build something off of that. Or there are pole tents you can buy or build. These would give protection from weather and bugs, but also, maybe more importantly the ability to air condition (or dehumidify) the interior. This could come in handy if you want better conditions (out of rain minimum, control temp and humidity somewhat ideally) when doing epoxy, painting and varnishing to get museum quality. FL can be pretty sticky much of the year, so being able to not schedule around the weather can save a ton of time.

2. If you can rebuild the boat, then you can definitely figure out a cradle or jack stand arrangement. However, do consider the ground that you are putting it on. If it's an old gravel parking lot that has been there a couple decades then you're probably good. Paved or concrete better. But if it's in a field, then you'll need to take measures to keep whatever supports you end up with from settling / sinking, even a cradle. The basic standard is some plywood, but much of FL is a swamp so it may take a little more.

1. Only thing to add here is that you may be able to find one company to do both the trucking and off-loading at your property. Might be easier than separate companies.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by NewAlexandria

If it costs me $15,000 to bring her from the ocean into my house and then back, then maybe I need to reconsider, and use resources better.

So using rates I've run into around here (Minnesota), you could expect to pay the marina $300 for haulout and $300 for launch, and then another $300 for mast unstep and $300 for mast step. This assumes you do the preparatory work yourself, such as disconnecting wiring, loosening standing rigging, removing sails, removing and securing running rigging, removing the boom, etc. Those costs are the same whether you store the boat at the marina or take it to your house.


So far we're at $1200. If you're going to leave the mast at the marina they'll charge you for that too, if you block it in place yourself on deck you can bring it home with you.



I would guess the trucking guys with hydraulic trailers are going to charge you around $1200 each way for a short-distance haul, maybe a little less if there's someone local who has one (call local marinas to see). This presumes some schedule flexibility on your part so that they can work it into their schedule and pick a day when they have equipment in your area.


Stands, if you buy them for $300 each and sell them for $200 each, and need 10 of them, well you'll end up $1000 poorer.


So far we're at $4600.


If you do need a crane to unload, as might be the case if you're working on the boat in an area not accessible to a trailer, or if you can't find a hauler with a hydraulic trailer, then they're going to charge maybe $300 an hour port to port, that is, from when they leave their base, to when they get back. You may also need to hire a rigger to place slings. All together that would add another $2000 or so.


My two cents, based on experience.