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Old 16-06-2021, 08:00   #1
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Newbie look at sloop and square sail similarity for balance of yaw rotation at sea

Welcome to our kingdom.

If you can imagine a square sail.
Broad head that remains stable.
Broad foot that can dance dead.
Luff to windward; a leading EDGE.
Leach to Leeward; a leading POINT.

A tapered edge to slip through a gap in the wind and fine point propulsion.

I believe in poetry and practice.
Eg.

Head, into the wind.
Tail off, a drag on.

To me that simply states a torqued luff to lead a slipped system with beat eye at head of luff tension, running eye at guy eye of luff tension. Eg the monitoring of rippling there!
Brace is brace. The more you heave the more you brace ho. It isn't simple until practiced. I have never practiced square. Just saying that such with enable the leeward flowing of the sail.

Tale off, a drag on. They will dance dead eye to wind!!!

Similarities with sloop!
It is of best practice to flow the leeward of sail cloth! To do such is your own practice. Why leeward and not windward of cloth?
Because of safety and Watt might be fun when practiced and fluent later.
To flow the leeward tales is worth the learning. Yaw rotation of vessel might feel less powerful but just be patient whilst momentum building on a much less stressful rig.
It isn't easy, nothing rarely is, but it'll work out soon enough. Leeward flow helps concentration of higher pressure on leeward thus assists in rotation (heeling of vessel) as high to low systems of pressure naturally flow high to low. Although windward might even be luffing a little bit (drag on in low pressure), sail shape will leach the winds energy and create thrust aft of sail as leach points slip into stream. Longer sail cloth life.
Just practicing white cloths gets a habit clear for later on.
With security of your main sail, and confidence to flow your leeward, a spinnaker might be introduced. Same principles but a little bit trickier. Isn't there to pressurize pocket but to high pressure leeward and punch strong. Doesn't even look like that's happening yet if balanced that is moments truth.
If your crew is good enough, you can dead reach like a square rigger. I ain't that confident but I ain't worlds best sailor neither.

The art to hide inside a blow. Rather than force sails, force is leached and in slip stream behind creating thrust.
Sheets get really heavy. Sails get less wear.

Lessons learnt from a boat taught to survive. Last sea leg was on a bent spreader, a broken step and sailed home because night before was line sheer on heavy sheets. Eg. Basically no damage.

Learn to flow leeward cloth brother, sister.
Welcome to enjoy art in our world. Please don't litter.

Edit: that night was full throttle in Gale though on a light weight. Main leaching spinnaker aft of sails. Reduction of wind disturbance. I just thought to include that if lost with damage comment. Many might snap instead.

Flow leeward
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Old 16-06-2021, 08:35   #2
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Re: Newbie look at sloop and square sail similarity for balance of yaw rotation at se

Edit again.
Easily put as leading edge technology and facial recognition

Starts with practice and confidence to flow the hidden side of sails face.
I can't remember how, I'm learning too.
But that is why.
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Old 16-06-2021, 10:29   #3
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Re: Newbie look at sloop and square sail similarity for balance of yaw rotation at se

Indeed
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Old 18-06-2021, 04:05   #4
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Re: Newbie look at sloop and square sail similarity for balance of yaw rotation at se

Just in awe of superior control of sail craft.
Simply saying, taught by hand of here you are, hold this sheet and stabilise eye.

Always flow backside of sail which correctly written would be leeward side.

Luff fixed on our vessels. Forestay, mast.
If wanting better control up wind , luff (forestay would be red line) yet also told I'm not getting a square rigger because I don't know how to sail and use what you have.
Downwind, forestay luff doesn't disturb air wings much, hence scream with jib out.

But that's why I admire square rigs. They scream into the wind. Lower point, stiff ship, she's screaming.
Good ol' ice cream.
When in doubt, heave some more, built to scream on all points of sail yet avoiding the truth like a sloop does anyway.

Picture from wiki.
Square rigs scream upwind. Both sloop and square flow leeward cloth or wear some extra.

Just an admirer of sail. No-one flash.
Safe journeys you'll.
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Old 18-06-2021, 19:34   #5
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Re: Newbie look at sloop and square sail similarity for balance of yaw rotation at se

https://youtu.be/p8NQUbLQGio

Found a song describing a square rigger making deep ocean passage way.

None of us can turn and run into face a storm head to head at a higher point.
If we want a high point, we need to be tackful.
They're real beasts
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Old 18-06-2021, 21:04   #6
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Re: Newbie look at sloop and square sail similarity for balance of yaw rotation at se

Did you intend to link to Five Finger Death Punch?

As I reflect on square rig sailing, Boccherini comes to mind (sure, I’m a slave to pop culture, and who among us would eschew a little homage to the Master and Commander movie??( May Patric O’B rest in piece); but 5FDP... that’s an interesting interpretation. Good for heavy weather stuff, I give you.

Really boring (yet fun fact for ONLY me), there’s a billboard buried deep in the music video that features an Erickson S-64 Aircrane Helicopter to which I lay some claim to. Small world.

And to make use of a brilliant quote from upthread... “good ol’ ice cream!”
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Old 19-06-2021, 01:53   #7
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Re: Newbie look at sloop and square sail similarity for balance of yaw rotation at se

Quote:
Originally Posted by Creedence View Post
Did you intend to link to Five Finger Death Punch?

As I reflect on square rig sailing, Boccherini comes to mind (sure, I’m a slave to pop culture, and who among us would eschew a little homage to the Master and Commander movie??( May Patric O’B rest in piece); but 5FDP... that’s an interesting interpretation. Good for heavy weather stuff, I give you.

Really boring (yet fun fact for ONLY me), there’s a billboard buried deep in the music video that features an Erickson S-64 Aircrane Helicopter to which I lay some claim to. Small world.

And to make use of a brilliant quote from upthread... “good ol’ ice cream!”
Yes I did. Ability to punch dead to wind but sheet eyes would be making decent fist hands. Lyrics are so well placed IMO.
Unlike our point head spinnakers. If crew were to balance and punch dead, escape routes to counter are greatly reduced.

Basic fundamentals of sailing with both tri sails and square cloths remains though . Drilled into our heads so to speak.. flow leeward cloth.

I imagine spinnaker. Sheet in hand. Weather getting heavier. Although square riggers excell in this when crewed, point head rigs can win too and excel in other aspects instead.
Her pocket filling with low pressure volume to be used as fuel. Low pressure leached is shot by high pressure fast flow and encouragement of strength becomes apparent with thrust.

Her leading clew. She's winking at you boy, heave. Heave. Her eye opens as heave ho is felt by crew on point. Heave. Heave as open eye eases to torque luff into opposing of wind. Easing eye to save her from stare, heave ho a twinkle of dare share some care. Tension sheets reducing rig stay tensions. Such is harmonics.
A dead man's harmonica, the ability to reach a run.

All starts with learning to leeward flow sail cloth sir.

I do wish you all the best enjoyments out there learning such a simple similarity. I'm just learning too.
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Old 19-06-2021, 02:27   #8
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Re: Newbie look at sloop and square sail similarity for balance of yaw rotation at se

Quote:
Originally Posted by Creedence View Post
Boccherini
Yeah definitely.
Marine beings would love hearing them string tensions.
Thanks for that. Added to my listening list.

Suppose above a bit of a gust if not ready for such..
I like it though. Inland and reminded of sailing.
When stays start singing, on porpoise they show up to play
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Old 19-06-2021, 03:23   #9
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Re: Newbie look at sloop and square sail similarity for balance of yaw rotation at se

Hence regarding basic principles of flowing leeward cloth.

I think plan here is to play games with my crew such as
' go even lower until we don't flow er.'

They'll soon appreciate that we ain't square easily, although old tall ships aren't as high (LoL) they turn and they run every point of their sail.
Most importantly; survival. They can run INTO a storm front!

I think it's difficult but game on able, tri flow leeward cloth.

Having fun too.
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Old 19-06-2021, 04:00   #10
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Re: Newbie look at sloop and square sail similarity for balance of yaw rotation at se

However..

Weird science then becomes crazy simple.
Although our sloop can point high. Tall ship square riggers can point higher but need wind to do so. As we fall off, they fall towards true.

Hence into a storm front, not only are they most powerful a stride, they are increasing their pointing ability with the winds increasing energy.

They point like a St ride bro. Oh ship a storm. Hitting front high fast and strong with minimal rig wear due to sail lift design and really firm sheets.

But when we see them.. laughing too. Won't point aye. Needs eyes.

Basic fundamentals. Flow leeward cloth.

Up windward boat up.
Starboard.

You're most welcome
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Old 19-06-2021, 04:47   #11
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Re: Newbie look at sloop and square sail similarity for balance of yaw rotation at se

Does anybody know what these guys are on about???? If you do, please explain it to us mere mortals.
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how to convert a ketch to a square-rigged schooner - in about 50 easy lessons. Lesson one - buy a ready-made brigantine schooner, or consult www.schooner-britannia.com.
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Old 19-06-2021, 05:19   #12
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Re: Newbie look at sloop and square sail similarity for balance of yaw rotation at se

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolly Roger View Post
Does anybody know what these guys are on about???? If you do, please explain it to us mere mortals.
You're most welcome brother..

With sloop. Wind increase brings sail reduction. Gets really awkward to hold point of sail plus vessel gets rotation.

But in storm, wind increases , as does waves.
Square riggers can if crewed with knowledge. Use focused eyes of sail to heave and brace heave ho.
Such action is much reduced rotation hence vessel stands up proud on strouds. But, because leeward of sail trim is flowing, the luff opposes wind believe it or not.. hence giving lift towards the true source of energy. With lift is thrust. Now looking at storm front, you have a vessel that's standing up better, on strongest propulsion she knows of and a crew working little but heavy work. When her sail eye winks, heave, heave ho, heave follows an easy to read pattern of shooting air flows with Hi-Lo sailor.
Hence although people knock that square riggers don't point. Like flock they don't, sailors would rather be ashore when conditions allow them to more the point. Truer than a sloop, with wind apply.
I'm happy with a broad sloop. Just stick N up for a vessel that lifts to climb truth when required.

Amazing aye.. probably why when we weren't transportation of a destroyed path such as modern freighters, they chose square over Schooner, ketch, sloop, etc. Or just one of the pros of such craft.

Leeward flow of cloth is a really useful habit IMO and basically the only thing I remember that I need to practice from many sailing schools all teaching the same thing. A slither in the wind.
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Old 19-06-2021, 05:28   #13
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Re: Newbie look at sloop and square sail similarity for balance of yaw rotation at se

Jolly Rogers.
I'm no expert.
If that luff folds, rig is toast. Them sailors of yesteryear would have wanted to survive. Heave ho. Heave ho. Heave ho.

Just a weird ability of a square rigger that modern era seem to forget.
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Old 19-06-2021, 06:20   #14
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Re: Newbie look at sloop and square sail similarity for balance of yaw rotation at se

Brother. Simple physics might complicate school taught physics. I admire use of square rig. I'd practice dead eye of wind with leeward tales bro to encourage feel for system. I'm just guessing. Stuff the luff, reach without leach. Let your cloth know that such tales can stay hidden whilst fun is fun.
That's what I think. An art of balance that I do not know.

All I see is a moon tide courtesy of a physically impossible orbit of a satellite that always faces our planet whilst in an orbit span directly proportional to the ratio of circumference difference. Simply amazes me too.

I'm just playing with what I get too; enjoying trying to flow leeward cloth.
Bon voyage.
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Old 19-06-2021, 10:04   #15
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Re: Newbie look at sloop and square sail similarity for balance of yaw rotation at se

Jolly Roger.
Maybe different language.
I know you use square sail and know beyond my understanding of system.
30 years ago I was asked what I thought of square riggers and I said they're pretty useless for going upwind.
Shows what you know was basic reply as in they're doing all right up wind.
Soon after with a stiffening gale, we were shown how to go upwind with a spinnaker. The more the wind strength grew, the higher the point we made way. They behave exactly like a square sail but are limited to point because we could not yard the luff is all I remember. The racers of the sister vessels are falling at less than half that wind strength!! To sail a square rigger is the ability to gain nearer to the true with the growing strength of the wind.
After that was years of sailing school. Gorgeous minded men jisting this and that..
All I remember is to flow leeward sail cloth and pick up hints from there.
Although I'm probably more like a parrot on a shoulder, I don't care. Just enjoying sailing too. Hopefully sooner than later.
But regarding point ability of square riggers. They'll lift to climb towards our true wind. More wind, more point, until something goes bang. They'll do alright beating into a storm. Nice calm river amongst a sea of dis beliefs. They stand up really well yet I've never sailed one.
Simply just keep bull shipping my arse off instead wondering how low I could reach using main leach. I just watched the luff forming an opposing tack and took clew of her winking eye. Often told if we fold we lose hold, eg rig because sheets held the stick up. We'd estimated about 2 foot of prestreched sheet stretch, a failed winch and a know way of true sail.
Because I'd said that square riggers can't point.
Can not and may not are two different things.

And I still don't care. Last in every match race I've entered, just sailing the leeward with less stress than bother. Wind climbs, just cruising along on a more natural habit tack.
Flowing leeward.
mortal too.
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