Microplastics in the sea

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by john61ct

For decades now, many Americans' water supply have violated the EPA standards set by the Safe Drinking Water Act, mostly low-income neighborhoods.
Over 40 million citizens in 18,000 communities is the current guesstimate.
Nestle is not battling this trend.

Interesting. I wasn't aware of the extent of the problem.


“National trends in drinking water quality violations” ~ Maura Allaire
In any given year from 1982 to 2015, somewhere between 9 million and 45 million Americans got their drinking water from a source that was in violation of the Safe Drinking Water Act, according to a new study. Most at risk: people who live in rural, low-income areas. Violations include failure to properly test water for lead, failure to report contamination to residents, and failure to treat water properly to avoid lead contamination.
➥ https://www.pnas.org/content/115/9/2078.short

See also ➥ https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018...r-county-stack

[Hardhead]

I'm of the opinion that you can't kill capitalism. If single use plastics were outlawed in the US at least, manufacturers may switch to aluminum cans, or some other creative substitute. Just as much profit would be made, and if that were found harmful and outlawed, some other solution would be found. US solutions and manufacturing efficiencies would find their way onto the world market. Just as much profit would be made with the creative solution found next after that. Beauty of the system.

[barnakiel]

There is no need to kill 'capitalism' nor 'Americans'.


It is not THEM doing something it is always us. You and me, and the cute sweet newborn next door too (read about the environmental print about disposable nappies).



The plastic is not due to politics or empires. It is due to plain human conduct. Or maybe rather misconduct.


Most of the plastic comes from China, India and other regions with huge production and nil environmental conscience.


99% of world population will see the world as me vs. the rest. But there is no 'rest'. There is continuity and we will in the end stuff ourselves up with whatever comes out of our our own other end.


Civilisations develop to a point and then fall. We are somewhere pretty close to the top now. Give it another 50 or 100 years and that's that.


Unless we fly to the moon with Elon Musk and continue spreading our nonsensical attitude elsewhere.


Cheers,
b.

[Hardhead]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

There is no need to kill 'capitalism' nor 'Americans'.

It is not THEM doing something it is always us. You and me, and the cute sweet newborn next door too (read about the environmental print about disposable nappies).

The plastic is not due to politics or empires. It is due to plain human conduct. Or maybe rather misconduct.

Most of the plastic comes from China, India and other regions with huge production and nil environmental conscience.

99% of world population will see the world as me vs. the rest. But there is no 'rest'. There is continuity and we will in the end stuff ourselves up with whatever comes out of our our own other end.

Civilisations develop to a point and then fall. We are somewhere pretty close to the top now. Give it another 50 or 100 years and that's that.

Unless we fly to the moon with Elon Musk and continue spreading our nonsensical attitude elsewhere.

Cheers,
b.

I hear you, and I agree. I think all we need to do is outlaw single use plastics though.

Luckily, we can see ahead, and act in our own selfish interests - if we are capable of it. Somehow, we are easily misled and fired up.

[RaymondR]

Originally Posted by Hardhead

I'm of the opinion that you can't kill capitalism. If single use plastics were outlawed in the US at least, manufacturers may switch to aluminum cans, or some other creative substitute. Just as much profit would be made, and if that were found harmful and outlawed, some other solution would be found. US solutions and manufacturing efficiencies would find their way onto the world market. Just as much profit would be made with the creative solution found next after that. Beauty of the system.

In my life time:

My hometown had a dairy on the outskirts and the dairyman rose early, milked his cows and delivered the milk in his van before breakfast time. To received the milk by placing a lidded container on your front step and the milk man poured the required volume in and put the lid on.

Then a big city dairy started trucking in bottled milk and the local dairyman, being unable to compete, went out of business. You washed the bottles and placed them on your front step and the delivery man removed them and they were sent back to the processor for refilling.

The next step in the evolution milk delivery evolution was paper cartons. These were still delivered by a milk man and you either burned the cartons or they went to land fill.

The final step to get us to today's nuisance plastics situation was the shift to plastic containers from the supermarket and the cessation of milk delivery.

I am reasonably certain we could revert to natural, bio-degradable fibre containers at little expense and inconvenience.

[Hardhead]

I agree - if there were a common sense market requirement that single use packaging be naturally biodegradable within, say, 5 years - the creativity of the capitalistic system would find the solution. Cellulose fiber, waxed cardboard - or something yet to be invented for the huge new market.

Plastic packaging manufacturers would no doubt scream bloody murder through lobbyists, donate tons of money, invoke communism, and invoke the natural freedom of man to pollute.

At the end - the new 5 year biodegradable packaging production market will establish itself, and it will be back to the same profits – although possibly with different manufacturers if the existing do not take advantage of the new capitalistic market opportunities. Production would off to the races again.

Some new high net worth individuals will be created, and some of the old ones will lose their status. That last part is the only reason why it won’t happen in this present day & age.

Thousands of the lobbied and socially manipulated will vilify the idea - and scream loudly on the existing packaging manufactures' behalf, and against their own personal interest. Paid opinion leaders will side with the manufacturers. We will then have the entire food chain ingesting microplastics successively for generations to come. Keep your fingers crossed, and those of your children, and grandchildren.

[john61ct]

Yes, getting all the valuable benefits of The Invisible Hand

does not require ceding 99.9% of the political power in our supposed republic / democracy to the wealthiest individuals.

In fact the natural tendencies toward crony corruption oligarchy and robber-baron monopolies needs to be kept in check in order for market forces to work for the common good.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Hardhead

...Thousands of the lobbied and socially manipulated will vilify the idea - and scream loudly on the existing packaging manufactures' behalf, and against their own personal interest. Paid opinion leaders will side with the manufacturers. We will then have the entire food chain ingesting microplastics successively for generations to come. Keep your fingers crossed, and those of your children, and grandchildren.

From "But At What Cost?" Cartoons by Tom Tomorrow
➥ https://thenib.imgix.net/usq/c1c4391...d63d611ccda5c4

[john61ct]

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-canada-48551041/how-do-you-vacuum-plastic-from-a-beach

[Hardhead]

Nothing says conservative, smart and wise like charging off into the dark with your kids and grandkids in the car on a one way street, and no way to really see where you are going.

The is only one reason why a common sense biodegradable packaging solution won't happen - and it's lobbyists and hired gun media opinion leaders for the existing plastic packaging manufacturers screaming bloody murder to the masses if anything is forced to evolve. It will be doomsday.

It's an artificial stagnation of natural American ingenuity, and it's manipulated by those with tons of money to confuse and mislead the average work-a-day people.

As a people, we are really stupid. The capitalistic market is the greatest solution finder to problems in the world - but we are not using it correctly. It can solve all these problems.

[nortonscove]

Originally Posted by Dave22q

I would be much more impressed if proof presented that consuming microplastics is harmful to man or beast. Until that day I put it with global warming, extinction of polar bears, co2 poisoning/pollution and other pseudo-scientific fake news stories.

With this take on the world I can only assume you've never had the misfortune of a visit to the doctor. You either buy into the reality of science or you don't but I would think that the denier also wears rose coloured glasses about the good old days when childbirth was much more dangerous but attributed to the gods or one in particular.

By the way polar bears aren't going extinct. They are moving to other than normal environs.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by nortonscove

... By the way polar bears aren't going extinct. They are moving to other than normal environs.

Global warming has caused a decline in the sea ice habitat polar bears depend on to catch seals, and scientists predict further sea ice loss. To understand how polar bears will be impacted, we need to know their survival and reproductive rates, under these lower sea ice conditions. However, we don’t have field measurements, since they are never-before-seen conditions, and we can’t assume the rates won’t change because we know bears need ice to eat and thus survive. The ice is much more than just a platform to move and hunt. Sea ice is the foundation of all Arctic marine life. It’s where they mate and raise their cubs. Sea ice is also essential habitat for their primary food, ringed seals, as seals pup and rest on the ice.
As sea ice decreases at a rate of about 4.6% a decade, polar bears at the southern edges of their range; like those in southern Nunavut, Manitoba and Ontario, spend five to six months on land, with very few seals to eat.
Current knowledge shows that polar bears have some capacity to adjust to the warming Arctic, but the loss of sea ice habitat may be happening too rapidly to allow for adaptation, and there are no substitutes on land for the fat rich seals on which the bears depend.
Are they going extinct? I think not (yet). Although most of the world's 19 populations have returned to healthy numbers, there are differences* between them. Some are stable, some seem to be increasing, and some are decreasing due to various pressures.
However, what is certain is that polar bears will face a difficult future without sea ice, which has been the foundation of their lives for hundreds of thousands of years.

* 1 population was in decline
2 populations were increasing
7 populations were stable
9 populations were data-deficient (information missing or outdated)

[GordMay]

I neglected to make my main point in my previous post.
The fate of the polar bear is likely to depend mostly on the rate of sea ice loss, and somewhat less on the extent of loss.

[john61ct]

It appears very unlikely the rate of such changes will be incremental.

A lot of such species will be gone long before ours.

[Baba Buoy]

[QUOTE=GordMay;2904359]YES

"This study found that worms feeding in highly contaminated ocean sediment ate less and had lower energy levels.
“Microplastic ingestion decreases energy reserves in marine worms” ~ Stephanie L. Wright et al.
➥ https://www.cell.com/current-biology...822(13)01343-2

This study established, for the first time, that ingesting microplastics can transfer pollutants and additives to worms, reducing health and biodiversity.
“Microplastic Moves Pollutants and Additives to Worms, Reducing Functions "

You can find studies to support any position you want to take.

"Worms living in highly polluted sediment" ? Can you imagine how many other confounding factors that could affect a creature health living in such an environment? Blaming inert, non-toxic plastic fibers on ill health of worms living in that environment is a real stretch.

Plastic garbage is a problem. If eaten by some dumb animal it can cause death by choking or obstruction of digestion track. The problem is when this subject become a witch hunt and supersedes common sense or objective science. Obsessing over plastic straws in the USA, while nearly all plastic pollution is from Asian fishermen and Asian rivers is one example of how this issue is distorted.