Lost Laptop

[Wotname]

@ Ann, perhaps this personal tale about Qantas insurance will make you smile.

A friend had her bag lost on a single sector flight from Newcastle to Sydney. The carrier was a Qantaslink regional airline and Qantas handled the insurance claim.

First they (Qantas) delayed any insurance aspects for 6 weeks while they waited for the lost bag to be found.

Next she filled out an insurance claim form where they asked for a list of every item in the bag which she duly did, right down to every item of cosmetics etc and the value of each item. The total was something like $2,281.43.

Some months go by and she gets a letter saying they have assessed her claim and based on the checked weight of the bag, she was to receive something $716. If she signs off, the matter is closed. This was sort of like what a64pilot posted earlier about Delta.

Now my friend was nothing if not particular and she has kept every receipt of everything she had ever purchased.

So she writes back to say the $716 was unacceptable and she again provides an itemised list of the contents of her bag but this time she included a copy of the receipts for every item. Of course the total was still $2,281.43. She added that if the claim was not promptly settled in full, they could take it to court and see what the judge thought was fair.

A cheque for $2,281.43 turned up within a fortnight!

[IslandHopper]

We are not derailing the thread, the thread is Ann's message to all about carrying computers in checked baggage, this conversation is just nutting out the fine print

Originally Posted by Dsanduril

Not to derail the thread, but as a learning experience, I'm absolutely sure that Qantas' lawyers would not agree with that interpretation. The language of the contract, to which we agree when purchasing a ticket, says "You must not include in your Checked Baggage..." There is no part of that language that says "it's OK if you do, we just won't cover it with insurance." The word "must" in a contractual sense is just about the strongest word that can be used, it does not allow any interpretation.

Thats word for word from Qantas.... as i mentioned earlier i have carried laptops in checked baggage with Qantas for years, have even had checked baggage inspected while present and no mention of the laptop been prohibited, the bag gets x-rayed everytime and still no mention......this is why i phoned for clarification and had it clarified. If you go back to your original link you will see that 7.2 covers Prohibited items and mentions 7.3, 7.5 and 7.7, no mention of 7.4 because they are not prohibited items, if they where they then 7.4 would get a mention to...

The reason they won't say it's ok in the conditions is because it could/would lead to difficulties for the Qantas lawyers defending a claim made against them, they cannot print that it is ok but we will not cover for loss or damage, hence why 7.4 Restrictions on Checked Baggage exists....in other words you must not pack any of the listed items in your checked baggage because if they are lost or damaged you will not be able to claim for them....it's a liability warning nothing more, and the only time you would be dealing with Qantas lawyers is if you attempt to make a claim, certainly not to defend yourself for carrying a computer in checked baggage, let alone a couple of CD's or a family heirloom,,,,,

Another give away is why would Qantas announce the ban on Apple MacBook Pro's been carried in checked baggage if all computers are banned to start with, would be pointless.....

Also......

https://www.qantas.com/au/en/travel-...le-macbook-pro

Travelling with an Apple MacBook Pro

Information on the recall of a limited number of Apple Retina 15 inch MacBook Pros, sold between September 2015 and February 2017, is available on the product-safety-recall-15-inch-macbook-pro.pdf and on Apple Support. Affected devices must be carried in cabin baggage and switched off for the duration of the flight. Devices that have had their battery replaced by either Apple or an Authorised repairer, may be carried without restriction.

[JPA Cate]

Well, it would be lovely if someone contacts me and offers to return the computer to me. However, I'm not going to hold my breath waiting.

Dsanduril may well be right, anyhow. One of the reasons I sort of think it may have been destroyed is because we weren't hacked. It would be incredibly lucky (after the unluckiness of theft) for it to be only for personal use. Seems lower probability, to me. Anyhow, if life gives you lemons, try and remember to make lemonade, lemon marmalade, lemon creme, lemon chiffon pie.....something good, anyway...if you can.

Ann

PS. Good on your friend, Wottie. Living on a boat, I really don't keep many receipts. And scanning them into the computer's a pita.
And yes, if we ever get there, we'll share a beer or three!

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by Dsanduril

The missing piece, to me, is what happened to the laptop? If it was removed by any airline or security personnel because of a defect/contractual obligation/any other reason then I would expect an explanation from the authority that removed the item.

I would expect a note in the bag that it had been opened for inspection and an item removed. Since that didn't happen I think theft is most likely.

I get TSA notes all the time. I carry too much stuff.

[gamayun]

I'm so sorry to hear of this, Ann. How awful, too, that it is not insured by the airline. It certainly sounds as if it was a baggage handler who did the deed since the bag was likely in the airline's possession the whole time. That's just maddening. Suggest you send a letter of complaint that such an exception of coverage for laptops and other devices should be better articulated by the airline on their website or something. That's a mental reminder for me to check the fine print from now on. I jope you are back to full use soon and this is all a faded memory. It's too late now, but I have my stuff backed up to the cloud which means that even if I don't have access to my computer, I can still get access to all the files. If nothing else, try to do hard back-ups on a regular basis.

[JPA Cate]

Yes, to separate backups. Yes, also on the TSA slips. I have sent a complaint to the airline, identifying the computer by its serial number, etc., and received confirmation of the complaint with a note that I should have an answer within 5 working days. Honestly, I think Auspicious is right, and it was stolen. Easier to hide a tablet laptop without its charger.

It it was stolen, it's gone. But if some foolish mistake were made, they have the opportunity to make it right.

Ann

[JPA Cate]

This morning, a friend received an e-mail from "JAMES CATE" asking him to open a link, and sent us the warning my missing laptop may been hacked, and someone's sending toxic stuff from it.

DO NOT OPEN THE LINK! This message is not from either one of us.

We are not as yet sure the computer has been hacked, but it very well may have been.

Apologies if this inconveniences anyone here.

Ann

[jmh2002]

Did you immediately change all your passwords and add 2 factor authentication as mentioned earlier in the thread?

If yes then it would be very difficult to 'hack' your email. If no, well...

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by jmh2002

Did you immediately change all your passwords and add 2 factor authentication as mentioned earlier in the thread?

If yes then it would be very difficult to 'hack' your email. If no, well...

Don't forget the computer was likely removed from Ann's bag in Chicago and was only discovered missing on her arrival in Sydney Aust so there was a good sized window of opportunity for the bad guy to be bad - at least 12 - 18 hours, maybe more.

[JPA Cate]

^^^^We left on the 19, arrived on the 21, because of the dateline. All in all about 30 hrs traveling before discovery.

The various fiduciary places all notified and due precautions taken, but there was that hiatus.

Ann

[jmh2002]

Originally Posted by Wotname

Don't forget the computer was likely removed from Ann's bag in Chicago and was only discovered missing on her arrival in Sydney Aust so there was a good sized window of opportunity for the bad guy to be bad - at least 12 - 18 hours, maybe more.

Sure, but upon discovery of the lost device, the immediate next step is to log in, change passwords, and check for suspicious activity (eg: sent email box...)

Although normally what happens is that if you do not already have sufficient security in place you can't even log in - because the thief, hacker, etc, has already reset your password to one of their own choosing.

Two factor authentication mostly prevents that. For example, when the hacker tries to change your gmail password they are asked for the authentication code, which they don't have, and can't produce (and you should get an alert that a password change has been attempted - a warning alert in itself).

They do still have access to your email account in the interim period (not good in itself) but you can subsequently log in, change the password(s) and lock them out.

Anyone not using 2 factor authentication is putting not only themselves at risk, but other users at risk too. It's very poor computing practice.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by jmh2002

Sure, but upon discovery of the lost device, the immediate next step is to log in, change passwords, and check for suspicious activity (eg: sent email box...)

Although normally what happens is that if you do not already have sufficient security in place you can't even log in - because the thief, hacker, etc, has already reset your password to one of their own choosing.

Two factor authentication mostly prevents that. For example, when the hacker tries to change your gmail password they are asked for the authentication code, which they don't have, and can't produce (and you should get an alert that a password change has been attempted - a warning alert in itself).

They do still have access to your email account in the interim period (not good in itself) but you can subsequently log in, change the password(s) and lock them out.

Anyone not using 2 factor authentication is putting not only themselves at risk, but other users at risk too. It's very poor computing practice.

Of course you do need some hardware to do all that - even if it has been stolen .

Not an issue for those who have the smartphone, tablet and a couple old computers at their fingertips otherwise it is down to the local library or internet cafe (do they still exist???).

[jmh2002]

Actually, following the advice that I posted earlier in the thread you could do all of it from only one borrowed computer (or even phone or tablet if necessary), even as you said, at a library or internet cafe, with the only requirement being that you have remembered your two independent master passwords for LastPass and Authy.

That is the whole point of having things setup with multiple options like this, in case the worst happens such as in this situation, or worse still - all other devices have been lost or stolen too.

Best practices should have been better, and this should be a learning experience and free advice (as well as free solutions) for any cruiser who might not be so up to date regarding these matters.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

With all due respect, checking computers or jewelry is not a good idea without serious coordination ahead of time. I speak as a former US DCS non-pro courier.

Carry-on computers, jewelry, meds, and pretty much anything that is expensive or mission critical. Stories to tell.

Haven't flown Quantas but the 5-6 airlines we've flown recently all made it clear on check-in that electronics are not allowed in checked baggage (of particular concern is batteries but they didn't always clarify that).

But with a wife, brother and parents in the industry in various ways...it's always (at least going back 30-40yrs) been strongly encouraged not to put electronics or other valuables in checked baggage and they won't pay for it if lost or damaged.

Locks/zip ties: They (customs, TSA etc...) have the right to open your checked bag, so if they want in they will break into it. The airline will just shrug if the lock/zip ties are gone when the bag arrives. Their contract covers them unless you can prove who stole the item. Usually if done officially, they will stick a note in the bag but a lack of note doesn't prove who did it.

If you have disabled the password access to your computer...yeah, you are asking for a problem. Not that a professional couldn't bypass it but a casual thief will have issues. We also have a couple of playing card size backup drives and periodically copy the harddrive over, so we don't lose pictures and other files (cloud is an issue without a landline based internet service)

So sorry you went thru the hassle but its' not a new issue by any stretch.

On a funnier note: When we had the boat in spain, needed a new water pump and saved about $400 having a friend carry it over. from the USA vs European sources..TSA really struggled with how a 10lb metal pump could be used for nefarious purposes. Especially since the friend isn't mechanically inclined, so couldn't explain well. Eventually they let him thru but he likely won't be bringing us more boat parts.

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by jmh2002

Anyone not using 2 factor authentication is putting not only themselves at risk, but other users at risk too. It's very poor computing practice.

2 factor authentication is a real problem when your phone number changes in each country you visit. Biometrics are nice but the hardware is generally not portable and the bandwidth requirements go up; you don't want to time out.

For cruisers 2 factor authentication is not a panacea and brings its own challenges.