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28-01-2018, 16:16
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#31
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Jacksonville/ out cruising
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 31,351
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Re: Looking For US Made United States Flags
Quote:
Originally Posted by JPA Cate
Thanks very much, guys.
@A64pilot: Actually, I am slowly coming around to the point of view that it is best to bring our flags in at night. It is a PITA after all the years of doing otherwise, but it will help them last longer.
Ann
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It is, just I’m too lazy.
Almost no one flies the Ensign anymore it seems.
I see more Pirate flags than Ensigns
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29-01-2018, 08:42
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#32
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: SC
Boat: None,build the one shown of glass, had many from 6' to 48'.
Posts: 10,208
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Re: Looking For US Made United States Flags
Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot
It is, just I’m too lazy.
Almost no one flies the Ensign anymore it seems.
I see more Pirate flags than Ensigns
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That's an interesting question. It seems at one time is was common practice that "yachts" flew the Ensign and commercial vessels flew the Flag. Could it be there are is more international sailing and the Ensign is not appropriate?
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29-01-2018, 09:01
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#33
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: New York, New York
Boat: Dufour Safari 27'
Posts: 1,909
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Re: Looking For US Made United States Flags
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cadence
That's an interesting question. It seems at one time is was common practice that "yachts" flew the Ensign and commercial vessels flew the Flag. Could it be there are is more international sailing and the Ensign is not appropriate?
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The yacht ensign (Stars in a circle around an anchor) is for domestic use only and is not supposed to be flown internationally.
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29-01-2018, 11:53
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#34
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֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 15,136
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Re: Looking For US Made United States Flags
Here, let me shed some confusion on that light:
https://flagsinternational.com/produ...-yacht-ensign/
A special flag, looking like the national flag and ensign but with a fouled anchor in a circle of stars in the canton, was created by Act of Congress in August, 1848 as a flag to be used by licensed U.S. yachts. Initially, this was apparently not intended to be an ensign, but rather was intended to be used as a signal flag by a licensed yacht to declare herself exempt from customs duties, but its usage was required by all licensed yachts under the 1848 law (“All such licensed yachts shall use a signal of the form, size, and colors prescribed by the Secretary of the Navy.”). Due to the flag’s similarity to the national ensign, however, both licensed and unlicensed yachts started flying this flag as the ensign, and eventually the US government confirmed that it would accept this practice for yachts in United States waters; however, the national flag is the only ensign allowable in international or foreign waters. In 1939, the Secretary of the Navy approved the ruling of the Judge Advocate General of the Navy “…that a ship of the Navy should return a dip made by a yacht flying the yacht ensign and that the yacht ensign may properly be made the object of a hand salute to be rendered on boarding or leaving a yacht.”
So within the US, a yacht ensign has (and has also lost) a purpose, while simply flying a US flag fills all needs, domestic and foreign.
I'm guessing it is also much simpler to find US flags, at much lower prices, than to stop by the local WalMart and try explaining what a yacht ensign is.
What irks me is all the folks who think they have to fly a flag of any kind, but can't be bothered with flying it high enough to get it off the deck or railings. What is that, an "I care but I don't give a damn" message?
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29-01-2018, 12:41
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#35
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Moderator
Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 21,156
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Re: Looking For US Made United States Flags
I've often wondered if any modern USN ship would notice and respond to a dipped ensign. My instinctive guess is that they wouldn't notice, if they noticed they wouldn't know what it signified. and if they did know, they wouldn't be bothered to respond.
The days of such (kinda silly) courtesies are, I fear, long gone.
Jim
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II, lying Port Cygnet Tasmania once again.
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29-01-2018, 13:04
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#36
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: SC
Boat: None,build the one shown of glass, had many from 6' to 48'.
Posts: 10,208
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Re: Looking For US Made United States Flags
I guess an Ensign would be nice for hanging in your man cave, if you can find one? Hellosailor had a nice piece of history on it.
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29-01-2018, 13:57
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#37
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Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: aboard, cruising in Australia
Boat: Sayer 46' Solent rig sloop
Posts: 28,438
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Re: Looking For US Made United States Flags
Thanks to everybody for all their replies. I think this is sorted.
Cheers, guys,
Ann
__________________
Who scorns the calm has forgotten the storm.
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29-01-2018, 14:10
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#38
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Hammond, IN
Boat: Columbia 8.7
Posts: 292
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Re: Looking For US Made United States Flags
To pick a nit, an ensign is any flag meant to represent the nationality of a ship. My understanding is the two flags used as US ensigns are the yacht anchor flag and the 50 star landlubber version, known as the civil flag. I vaguely recall the US Power Squadron flag may be able to be used.
Defender sells Annin flags, you can save a shipping fee if you combine orders.
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29-01-2018, 14:13
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#39
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Jacksonville/ out cruising
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 31,351
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Looking For US Made United States Flags
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate
I've often wondered if any modern USN ship would notice and respond to a dipped ensign. My instinctive guess is that they wouldn't notice, if they noticed they wouldn't know what it signified. and if they did know, they wouldn't be bothered to respond.
The days of such (kinda silly) courtesies are, I fear, long gone.
Jim
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I feel real sure that they would both notice, and respond, and likely talk about it for some time to come, be proud to do so actually, it would make their day. Anyone who didn’t know, would be taught by a Senior Chief, who I’m sure knew what it meant, and the Junior would never forget
Tradition is one thing that is or was still very much alive in the Military when I was in anyway, and I doubt that has changed. Traditions were taught in every Military school level.
We felt it was our traditions that kept us in contact with what we were, or were supposed to be anyway.
I was Air Cav most of my career and we wore Cav hats, “ Stetsons” and spurs on our boots for formal occasions as they were not legal uniforms, but of course took us back to the horse Cav days. The boots were Tankers boots as the Cav went from horses to tanks, and then some to helicopters.
General Officers tolerated it as long as we weren’t too public about it.
The US Army Military formal uniform “dress blues” has the pants very much a lighter shade of blue than the jacket, reason was the Horse Cav soldiers almost never wore the jacket, but always wore the pants, so the pants were faded.
Every where you go, you carry your unit coin. If your ever at a bar and someone drops their coin on the bar, anyone without a coin buys a round for the bar, if everyone has a coin, then the one who dropped the coin owes a round. Walk in with your hat on, and there is a bell in the bar, Bell is rung and you owe a round for the bar.
Military is full of traditions.
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29-01-2018, 14:20
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#40
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Jacksonville/ out cruising
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 31,351
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Re: Looking For US Made United States Flags
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cadence
I guess an Ensign would be nice for hanging in your man cave, if you can find one? Hellosailor had a nice piece of history on it.
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See I learned something, by Ensign, I meant The US National flag.
I’d have said Stars and Bars, but that can have other meanings.
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29-01-2018, 14:32
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#41
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Long Beach, CA
Boat: Tayana Vancouver 42
Posts: 2,804
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Re: Looking For US Made United States Flags
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate
I've often wondered if any modern USN ship would notice and respond to a dipped ensign. My instinctive guess is that they wouldn't notice, if they noticed they wouldn't know what it signified. and if they did know, they wouldn't be bothered to respond.
The days of such (kinda silly) courtesies are, I fear, long gone.
Jim
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Jim, I had the occasion to sail close by the USS Boxer (a Wasp Class amphibious assault ship) off San Diego last year. I dipped my US flag and they dipped theirs in reply. Courtesy lives in the US Navy.
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29-01-2018, 15:06
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#42
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Moderator
Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 21,156
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Re: Looking For US Made United States Flags
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tayana42
Jim, I had the occasion to sail close by the USS Boxer (a Wasp Class amphibious assault ship) off San Diego last year. I dipped my US flag and they dipped theirs in reply. Courtesy lives in the US Navy.
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Thanks for relating that experience... I stand corrected and surprised. It would appear that A64's belief in military respect for tradition is realistic, and my view jaded and untrue.*
But then you'd think the USN would have a tradition of good watchkeeping on their destroyers as well...
Jim
* How do you have your ensign rigged, and how did you dip it, and at what distance from the ship were you? I'd like to try this out myself... most likely with an Aussie warship being that USN vessels are thin on the ground hereabouts most of the time!
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II, lying Port Cygnet Tasmania once again.
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29-01-2018, 15:12
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#43
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Long Beach, CA
Boat: Tayana Vancouver 42
Posts: 2,804
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Re: Looking For US Made United States Flags
Jim, we fly our US flag on a flag halyard from the starboard spreader. When we were about even with the Boxer’s bridge we lowered our flag about 1/4 of the height of the spreader and then without delay raised it again. We did this twice to be sure they had a chance to see us. I’m not at all sure we followed proper etiquette but they responded nicely.
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29-01-2018, 15:25
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#44
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Moderator
Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 21,156
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Re: Looking For US Made United States Flags
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tayana42
Jim, we fly our US flag on a flag halyard from the starboard spreader. When we were about even with the Boxer’s bridge we lowered our flag about 1/4 of the height of the spreader and then without delay raised it again. We did this twice to be sure they had a chance to see us. I’m not at all sure we followed proper etiquette but they responded nicely.
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Hmm...
That wouldn't work for us, for that spot is traditionally reserved for the courtesy flag for the country in which we are visiting, and the ensign is then properly flown from astern. We don't have a proper flagstaff, but fly it from the solar arch. Kinda hard to dip it from there! I'd consider flying it from the backstay, but then one encounters solar panel shading... dang!
Jim
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II, lying Port Cygnet Tasmania once again.
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29-01-2018, 15:44
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#45
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Hammond, IN
Boat: Columbia 8.7
Posts: 292
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Re: Looking For US Made United States Flags
Yep, the three options for ensign location are the backstay, a staff on the transom or the tallest masthead.
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