Long term (sabbatical) charter?

[Yairi1]

New to the forum...

Just finishing up a charter in BVI and dreaming about taking a sabbatical in a few years. Are there any long term charter operators on the east coast of the US? Looking for 1-6 months between mid-Atlantic states and Canadian maritimes. Can’t justify spending $100-150k on a cruising boat (Island Packet preferred) for a few months of sailing.

Thanks!

[Macblaze]

You could do a search for this topic as its been asked a lot of times (even by me...)

But the short answer is no. There are no charter companies (other than one called Seabattical out of the BVIs) that specialize in long charters. Some will give you a discount but it won't be significant.

My personal take is that for 6 months you could buy and sell your boat cheaper than chartering for the equivalent period of time. Others disagree. Some vehemently :-)

[Yairi1]

Originally Posted by Macblaze

You could do a search for this topic as its been asked a lot of times (even by me...)

But the short answer is no. There are no charter companies (other than one called Seabattical out of the BVIs) that specialize in long charters. Some will give you a discount but it won't be significant.

My personal take is that for 6 months you could buy and sell your boat cheaper than chartering for the equivalent period of time. Others disagree. Some vehemently :-)

Thanks, Macblaze!

Yes, Seabattical is all I could find, but will search this forum.. A 10% discount on an $8k/wk charter just doesn’t make sense for 6 months. Agree the math probably favors buying and reselling, even with up to $15k in taxes.

Was curious if there was enough interest from a group like this (and if the finances made sense) to create this solution...

Cheers!

[Therapi]

Seabbatical Long Term Bareboat Yacht Charter - BVI Bareboat Charters

[Macblaze]

Originally Posted by Yairi1

Thanks, Macblaze!

Yes, Seabattical is all I could find, but will search this forum.. A 10% discount on an $8k/wk charter just doesn’t make sense for 6 months. Agree the math probably favors buying and reselling, even with up to $15k in taxes.

Was curious if there was enough interest from a group like this (and if the finances made sense) to create this solution...

Cheers!

They way I figured it was 3 months was going to cost $30,000 and 6 months was going to cost a minimum of $50,000, probably more. And we actually had a year off. I looked at all sorts of things from world cruises to renting a villa in France. The sunk cost was huge in each case.

So when we decided we wouldn't mind spending time in the PNW we ended up buy with an intention of selling after 1 year and willing to eat at least $30,000 in lost resale value, taxes, and start up costs. We didn't end up selling but I figure (other than day to day expenses) it would have cost us around $19,000 (and any broker fees if we sold that way) which isn't bad for a years' holiday.

We have our boat in charter now and I am pretty sure it wouldn't make economic sense to charge much less that we are charging now. The margins are too slim and the charter companions seem to make their money off of volume. So no, I don't think long term chartering is a money-making venture.

[canyonbat]

[/QUOTE]

My personal take is that for 6 months you could buy and sell your boat cheaper than chartering for the equivalent period of time. Others disagree. Some vehemently :-)[/QUOTE]

I think it is a risk/reward situation. With the charter, you have a relatively fixed cost going in and you do not have to either finance or tie up investment money in your boat for an indeterminate period of time. One of the big problems with the buy/sell option is timing. What are the chances you will find the right boat, in the right place, at just the right time and then be able to quickly sell it at the end of the season? Aside from your $15K in taxes, throw in the buying expenses (shopping trip, survey, upgrades, etc.), ongoing expenses (moorage, Insurance, maintenance, etc), broker’s feel on the end, and any loss on sales price. It looks like the upside is small with the risk of a big downside.

[Macblaze]

Originally Posted by canyonbat

I think it is a risk/reward situation.

Absolutely.

Originally Posted by canyonbat

It looks like the upside is small with the risk of a big downside.

The upside isn't small. You actually get to go sailing for 6 months! (or longer) Otherwise you are looking at a guaranteed loss of ~($5000 x 24) - 10%... Can you afford to spend $108,000 on a sabbatical? And that's just accommodations.

To me it was the small risk of a significant downside vs. a huge upside.

[Moontide]

Should be able to avoid the "taxes" side of things. Many states have no sales tax on boats at all, and others have no tax if you leave the state within a certain amount of time.


Still not sure it makes sense, but at least a little bit less of a hit.


Bill

[ArmyDaveNY]

Do you have to have your own boat? If not, you may wish to sign on with someone who is sailing in the area you desire. If the boat and the person, or persons, are right, you may find the trip rewarding while reducing your costs, workload, efforts while getting most or all of the benefits of your desired sabbatical.

[Chuck Hawley]

Please forgive me if this duplicates someone else's post, but I didn't see a similar comment.

I have to believe that there is an IP owner somewhere in the correct geographic area that is unable to use his/her boat as much as they want, or they have an illness, or they just need to make some money more than they need to own a boat for six months.

I don't know how you find such a person, other than through a forum like this one or an owners' association. I don't know if you can buy insurance such that the interests of the owner are 100% taken care of, but someone should be able to write you a policy. My 38' yawl cost about $900 per year to insure; what if it cost $3000 to have some sort of super-deluxe insurance policy for six months. If your boat is worth $150,000, what would you charge someone to charter it for six months? $3,000 per month?

Just asking. I know this varies by owner and his/her risk tolerance. I think it's more likely that there's a match made in heaven than we think.

Chuck

[Macblaze]

Originally Posted by Chuck Hawley

Please forgive me if this duplicates someone else's post, but I didn't see a similar comment.

I have to believe that there is an IP owner somewhere in the correct geographic area that is unable to use his/her boat as much as they want, or they have an illness, or they just need to make some money more than they need to own a boat for six months.

I don't know how you find such a person, other than through a forum like this one or an owners' association. I don't know if you can buy insurance such that the interests of the owner are 100% taken care of, but someone should be able to write you a policy. My 38' yawl cost about $900 per year to insure; what if it cost $3000 to have some sort of super-deluxe insurance policy for six months. If your boat is worth $150,000, what would you charge someone to charter it for six months? $3,000 per month?

Just asking. I know this varies by owner and his/her risk tolerance. I think it's more likely that there's a match made in heaven than we think.

Chuck

I've seen over a dozen of these types of posts and a lot of people have suggested what you are suggesting. So far no one has reported ever finding that "match." Like you I want it to be true but the the curmudgeon in me just doesn't believe people are willing to take that risk with their boats.

[Yairi1]

Ok... so what if just a dozen folks who are interested in this could agree on a cruising ground and buy a boat or two? Doesn’t have to be my own boat, but I want to sail something that others are interested in taking care of. I understand that accidents happen and that’s a downside risk, but it’s minimal compared to the upside of defrayed costs. I do the same with an airplane and 3 partners. On the contrary, the $0.5M, 3 year old yacht I just chartered looked like a beat up Enterprise Ford Focus. We can do better than that.

[Macblaze]

Originally Posted by Yairi1

Ok... so what if just a dozen folks who are interested in this could agree on a cruising ground and buy a boat or two? Doesn’t have to be my own boat, but I want to sail something that others are interested in taking care of. I understand that accidents happen and that’s a downside risk, but it’s minimal compared to the upside of defrayed costs. I do the same with an airplane and 3 partners. On the contrary, the $0.5M, 3 year old yacht I just chartered looked like a beat up Enterprise Ford Focus. We can do better than that.

It's closer to a possibility. When we were looking for our sabbatical solution I came across a fellow that was selling a 50% share in a Morgan 381 based in the BVIs. It would have worked out perfect for us because he only wanted to sail her 4 weeks that year. We went back and forth with the details and expectations and I was ready to jump when the first person to enquire (I was the second) swooped in and took the deal.

I think it depends on finding the right people and being able to shoulder the whole load if/when people bail on the project.

[bluenomads]

I think the boats and people are out there - we would do it for people we knew or got to know. There's a thriving swap economy now for houses and cars. A few years ago it would have been unthinkable letting someone you didn't know - from overseas no less - use your house and car for 3 months, yet that often happens (usually with a swap arrangement otherwise it's more into the short-term rental market).
I see no difference with boats, which is why we would definitely consider it. The main issue is with insurance, liability and damage. You would probably get more people to go down this path if the boat was in a marina the whole time as the risks would be less, which is sortof the equivalent of a immobile house. Yet people are now including their car in the agreement which is more of a moving-boat scenario.
Regarding part-ownership, I see no benefit in it for either party - as owner I lose any ability to get rid of a problem person as they co-own rather than a lease/sub-lease agreement; as the person wanting a sabbatical the upfront costs and risks are much higher for little gain.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Yairi1

Thanks, Macblaze!

Yes, Seabattical is all I could find, but will search this forum.. A 10% discount on an $8k/wk charter just doesn’t make sense for 6 months. Agree the math probably favors buying and reselling, even with up to $15k in taxes.

Was curious if there was enough interest from a group like this (and if the finances made sense) to create this solution...

Cheers!

How about .... approach a broker who is also a dealer. Many of these guys take boats on trade and then sell them. They may be willing to lease to get some income from their trade ins. I'd suggest approaching dealers of your preferred brand.