Less Dock Space Due to Government Policy

[drester228]

Originally Posted by ccannan

Um.... he wrote his family boatyard is in the US.

Thank you 🙏

[uncle stinkybob]

Originally Posted by donahue62

I think that’s like Duh.

Like "duh" there's 2 dumbass internet children waiting for the slightest error from others?
Or is that your personal take on this topic?

[IolantheSF]

Most problems are caused by people with too much power, and too little personal risk. The worst offenders are the government.

[David B]

Originally Posted by P3sailor

Could it be that some of the issues of "less dock space" is due to the increasingly number of catamarans which take up considerably more "dock space"???

Certainly has to be a significant factor - generally 50 multihulls = 25 yachts. Taking that to extremes, in a small harbour, that's 25 sailors who cannot find a berth for the night.

[donahue62]

Originally Posted by uncle stinkybob

Like "duh" there's 2 dumbass internet children waiting for the slightest error from others?
Or is that your personal take on this topic?

I must be a da because I don’t understand why you would say this.

[Montanan]

There are nearly 40 marinas in just the central San Francisco Bay area, with a total of more than 11,000 slips.

Of keen issue is that the population of the Bay Area has grown dramatically, [my frame of reference being from 1964 when I first moved there] but the shoreline has not expanded and the competition of alternative uses of shoreline has always been a factor and will always be a factor.

In the early 1960's the population was a bit over 3 million in the nine counties, now that is about 7.8 million, a very few of which are avid boaters.

But there are a lot more slips now then there were back in 1964 as the marinas that remain have been enlarged and greatly refurbished. A few have silted in and either were prohibited from dredging or it was uneconomical to continue dredging.

As to the Channel Islands National Park:

Landing Permits and Procedures
There are no landing permits required for the islands administered by the National Park Service (NPS). However, a landing permit is required to land on The Nature Conservancy (TNC) property on Santa Cruz Island.

There are closed and restricted areas on each island. Please note that rocks or islets on or near any of the islands are closed year-round to any landing and pets are not allowed in the park.

Boaters may land according to the following procedures:

Santa Barbara Island: A permit is not required to land or hike on Santa Barbara Island. Access to the island is permitted only at the landing cove. The landing dock is available for unloading purposes only. No craft, including kayaks and inflatables, should be left moored to the dock. Please lift your inflatables up to the upper landing.

Anacapa Island: A permit is not required to and or hike on East Anacapa Island or at Frenchys Cove. West Anacapa (except Frenchys Cove) is a protected research natural area and is closed to visitors. Visitors are allowed on Middle Anacapa by permit only and when accompanied by a park ranger.

The moorings near the landing cove at East Anacapa Island are reserved for use by the NPS, the USCG, and the park concessionaire only. Private boaters must anchor a reasonable distance from these moorings. This is not an all-weather anchorage. It is recommended that one person stay on board the boat at all times. The landing dock is available for unloading purposes only. No craft, including kayaks and inflatables, should be left moored to the dock. Please lift your inflatables and kayaks up to the lower landing.

Santa Cruz Island: Boaters may land on the eastern 24% of Santa Cruz Island without a permit. This area is owned by the NPS and is east of the property line between Prisoners Harbor and Valley Anchorage. The shoreline between Arch Point (northwest of Scorpion Anchorage) and the east boundary of Potato Harbor is closed to landing to protect nesting seabirds. No buoys are available at any landing area. Buoys are reserved for the NPS and the USCG. A pier is available at Scorpion Anchorage and Prisoners Harbor. Due to surf and swell conditions, boaters should use extreme caution when making surf-landings at any beach, especially Smugglers Cove and those beaches facing south and southeast between San Pedro Point and Sandstone Point.

A permit to land on the other 76% of Santa Cruz Island is required from TNC. A fee is charged and no overnight island use is permitted. Visit www.nature.org/cruzpermit to obtain a permit. Allow at least 10 business days for processing.

Santa Rosa Island: Boaters may land along coastline and on beaches without a permit for day-use only. From March 1 to September 15, the back beaches and sand dunes between and including Skunk Point to just north of East Point are closed to hiking to protect the nesting area for the snowy plover, a federally listed, threatened shorebird. Please remain on the wet sand (below mean high tide) or the road throughout this area. The beaches around Sandy Point are closed year-round. A pier is available at Bechers Bay. However, boaters may not use the mooring buoys in Bechers Bay. They are reserved for the NPS, the Coast Guard, and the park concessionaire.

San Miguel Island: Overnight anchorages are restricted to Cuyler Harbor and Tyler Bight. Visitors may land only on the beach at Cuyler Harbor. San Miguel Island is owned by the U. S. Navy and open for landing only when National Park Service personnel are on the island. The island was a former bombing range and there are possible unexploded ordnance.

It is the responsibility of private boaters to contact the park to ensure the island is open before coming ashore. A permit (including liability waiver) is required to visit the island. Private boaters can obtain these forms at a self-registration station at the Nidever Canyon trail head entry on San Miguel Island.

Visitors are required to be escorted beyond the ranger station. Visitors may explore Cuyler Harbor beach, Nidever Canyon, the Cabrillo Monument, and the Lester Ranch site unescorted. No off-trail hiking is permitted.

Private boaters are required to e-mail us prior to their mainland departure to arrange for an escorted hike by a ranger. Provide your name, phone number, vessel name, and dates of requested escorted hike. Park staff will then reply with available dates and instructions.

[Shanachie]

The problem isn't a shortage of marina slips. It's an overabundance of boats.


I blame GPS and chart plotters for that. Also, non-sailors who live aboard boats because it's cheap.



Back in the late Ice Age, when I bought my first boat, you had to find your way around with paper charts, a handheld compass and a sextant if you were brave enough to venture offshore.


Near shore, you took bearings off landmarks and drew pencil lines to figure out where you were. You spotted channel markers and buoys and had to do your best to figure out which ones they were.


Offshore sailors could, at most, hope for a fix within three or five miles if the boat wasn't rocking too much.


Nowadays, people have chart plotters bigger than my TV back in the day. You know within 20 feet or so where you are. They make navigating so easy that no one is intimidated by boats anymore.


Even when they should be ...


Another issue is that, at least in Florida where I live, marinas and mooring fields have become the go-to option for people who want waterfront living at trailer park prices.


At my marina, there are many dozens of people living in classic plastic who haven't been out for a day sail in years. They live in downtown St. Pete for $800 a month, while a small apartment can cost 2K.


I've always been in favor of freeing up many of those slips for people who actually do sail.

[JimStarkey]

Many states and municipalities where certain business owners and farmers can waive future development rights for a substantially reduced tax rate. I live in a reasonably wealthy community with two active boat yards, either of which would be worth 10s of millions of dollars turned into condos. The town decided it was better to have boatyards than condos, and gave them a break. But once you make the deal, there is no going back. I have no idea of your circumstances, but trading development rights for a tax break is a sound governmental policy.

[pcmm]

Originally Posted by David B

Certainly has to be a significant factor - generally 50 multihulls = 25 yachts. Taking that to extremes, in a small harbour, that's 25 sailors who cannot find a berth for the night.

Generally speaking, if a multihull takes up 2 regular slips, then is not 50 multihulls taking up the same space that could be occupied by 100 monohulls?

[Happ]

Originally Posted by P3sailor

Could it be that some of the issues of "less dock space" is due to the increasingly number of catamarans which take up considerably more "dock space"???

No. Catamarans pay a premium for their wider beam.

Where I live virtually all the slips in marinas have been sold. The owners are selling them at very high prices and retaining management of the facilities for regular income. In the next town a marina is being built for the 19’ to 30’ center console crowd. The marina reportedly is for 160 boats.

[lestersails]

Originally Posted by zamber

Regions that are having less availability of dock space is purely because of government policy.

A ridiculous statement that reflects the polemics of more than a few CF posters - everything the government does is bad and everything that is bad is the fault of the government.
The OP has not provided any evidence that there truly is a reduction in dock space. My bias is to think that the OP assertion of an actual reduction in space has a good chance of being true, but evidence matters and a personal experience with decreased availability of dock space is no substitute for data. The plural of anecdote is not data. An approach one might consider is starting with some evidence rather than a conclusion.
A number of other posters have advanced thoughtful assertions regarding factors other than your ax grind ("purely because of the government") that can reduce dock space. Your assertion is just flat wrong.
And I do think it is highly likely that government policy may be reducing dock space. And let us not forget that "government policy" in many cases reflects the interests of citizens who have views different from yours. My irritation at not being able to find a dock vs. my neighbor who is not a boater and wants to see more fish in the waterways. One man's ceiling is another man's floor.

Sometimes I think these rants are just tantrums - people railing that the world does not conform to their individual preferences.

[goboatingnow]

I can’t speak for the US. But these days anything on or near the water will have very significant planning requirements , environmental restrictions and assessments . Objections will be lodged and will have to be processed. The “ eco “ lobby is extremely watchful and pours over these types of developments.

Hence marina development is now a seriously big boys activity. Pension fund type investor types etc.

In this respect Gov policy is correct. The waterfront is a scare precious resource and often home to much marine bird and animal life. The water is polluted enough without more

Yes it should be difficult to build docks, quite frankly.

[lestersails]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

I can’t speak for the US. But these days anything on or near the water will have very significant planning requirements , environmental restrictions and assessments . Objections will be lodged and will have to be processed. The “ eco “ lobby is extremely watchful and pours over these types of developments.

Hence marina development is now a seriously big boys activity. Pension fund type investor types etc.

In this respect Gov policy is correct. The waterfront is a scare precious resource and often home to much marine bird and animal life. The water is polluted enough without more

Yes it should be difficult to build docks, quite frankly.

Agree - but should it be amended to say that waterfront development in general should be difficult to build? I am not so sure that a marina is overall that much worse for the environment than would be a huge condo development. I would speculate that the worst thing would be a waterfront golf course - the phosphorus, nitrogen, herbicides, and pesticides that wash off of golf courses would make a little spilled diesel from a marina look like nothin'!

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by lestersails

Agree - but should it be amended to say that waterfront development in general should be difficult to build? I am not so sure that a marina is overall that much worse for the environment than would be a huge condo development. I would speculate that the worst thing would be a waterfront golf course - the phosphorus, nitrogen, herbicides, and pesticides that wash off of golf courses would make a little spilled diesel from a marina look like nothin'!

Sorry yes I should have generalised as you say Building on or by the water should be very very difficult. I use to boat ( and yacht race ) on a very large freshwater lake , it’s now a natura 2000 site. There will never be another marina ( or house within 500 metres ) ( there are 3 ) developed on this body of water. That’s it.

And it’s right and proper. unrestrained purchases of boats cannot result in unrestrained development of waterfront development.

Buy a boat without a dock , tough luck buddy.

Dock development and other infrastructure should be developed on sustainable policies consistent with priority to sensitive natural environments not simply because there’s a “ buyer “

[joelhemington]

Originally Posted by redneckrob

The Channel Islands are wasteland? Are you talking about the same Channel Islands off the coast of California I am thinking about? If you truly believe that, then all I can say is thank goodness the vast majority of California residents would quite strongly disagree with you and CA is still a democracy!

Yep, not sure who'd use a Marina thirty miles offshore. If it's a wasteland you're looking for, take a trip up to Needles, Ca. Nothing lives out there because nothing with a brain larger than a peanut would want to live out there. The coyotes have all moved into town and the Indians lived up in the canyons and not out on that hell hole the OP refers to as the desert. Whether California is still a Democracy is debatable.