Legal problem and a documented boat

[Mallory4422]

This should probably be posted in the "confessional" section, but I figured more people would see it here.
I've been so embarrassed by this problem I've been putting off even posting it on this forum. So, nearly 20 years ago, I bought my present boat, a Passport 40. It was an estate sale, so the sale was completed by the executor of the estate. I bought the boat in San Diego, and moved it to Seattle WA. At the time, I had no knowledge of how estate matters were handled, so I didn't get a death certificate or a copy of the executor's power of attorney (having had some experience in the area, I now understand my mistake), just the bill of sale. The big problem; the boat was documented. I had NO idea what a problem this was. I tried to transfer the documentation, only to get a dizzying list of required documents. As I was working as a long-haul truck driver at the time, I didn't have the spare time to gather them all together (also a major mistake, I know). My broker (now out of business, as is the selling broker), led me down the garden path, and suggested registering it in Washington, and dropping the documentation. I thought I did this, when I got the registration moved to Washington State, where I have been paying the registration fees since buying the boat.
A few years ago, I found out this was not the case. The boat is (as far as I can tell) still documented, and I am guessing in the name of the last owner. I have put off dealing with this problem for the last few years, knowing just what a headache it's going to be, and being terrified of dealing with the government on the issue. Well, it's time to face the music. I am thinking my best course of action is going to be to hire an attorney, but I have no idea if I need one who specializes in marine issues (or how to find one), or even how to find a competent and honest (is there such a animal?) one.
It's a mess, I know, and I should have dealt with it much sooner, but this is what it is. Any advice from people out there that have some knowledge of this sort of thing would be greatly appreciated.

[Danm1]

Free internet advice, for what it's worth. The boat is not documented if no one paid annual fees. If you got a Washington title and registration, that's all you should need for sale or transfer.

[Shanachie]

I had a similar but different problem when, five years ago, I bought a documented sailboat that had been repossessed by a bank.


A kid working at the bank screwed up the paperwork and didn't want to admit it to his bosses.



The CG would not document the boat in my name, and the state of Florida would not give me a title without the proper CG paperwork because the documentation is the title.



Luckily, I have a brother who is an attorney as well as part owner and general counsel of a community bank. He was able to call up the legal department of the offending bank and read them the riot act.


("Exactly what kind of bank are you running here?" ...)


I got some help by finding a phone number for the documentation center of the CG. The guy on duty bent a few minor regulations, took the paperwork the bank was able to provide and documented the vessel.

[Mallory4422]

This actually sounds hopeful. No, I never paid any (yearly?) documentation fees. I also don't have a Washington title, as the state of Washington thinks its a documented boat. I am inferring from your comment that if the annual fees aren't paid for USCG documentation, that they "drop" the boat from the documentation program? While this would seem to leave me in limbo (a better place than the alternative), it would (I think) make my problems a little simpler. Thanks for the comment. It's worth a lot more than I paid for it

[Mallory4422]

Pretty much my problem. The fact that so much time has passed makes it more complicated. If the boat isn't documented (because I didn't pay the fees) and I don't have a title, (because the state thinks it's documented) where do I stand? Hopefully an attorney can straighten it out for less than the boat is worth.

[Bill O]

Seems straight forward to just get the boat state registered in Washington in your name. Would tell the state that you didn't want to pay documentation fees any more and want the state registration instead. Don't think you will need an attorney to fill out the registration forms.
May have to pay the state tax for the boat, but should be enough to put it in your name.

[Shanachie]

The Coast Guard has a form to fill out to transfer the title. If I remember correctly, in Florida, the state wanted the complete form approved by the CG before it would consider issuing a title.


There is another form ( of course there is) to withdraw documentation on a boat.



I believe documented boats are left on the register, but listed as dormant, if the fees are not paid. The old owner would still be listed as the last owner.


Another concern, as if you don't have enough already, is that your insurance may be worthless if you don't have a valid title. When I lost a sailboat to a hurricane years ago, Progressive made me sign over the title before cutting the check.

[TrentePieds]

Mallory:

This has to be a problem that occurs now and then. You would do the community a service if you let us know in due course just what it takes to get your problem solved.

Registration of Canadian vessels, which I understand has a rough equivalent in the US conventionally called "documentation", means in strict, if antiquated, terms that title to the vessel is "ceded to the Crown" which then, in peacetime, permits the "owner" of the vessel to use it. "The Crown" in a legal context simply means "the government"

In days of yore vessels that were large enough to be useful to "the Crown" in a war were required by law to be registered. Tonnage was taken as a proxy for usefulness. The requirement was a sort of preemptive confiscation if you will.

When an "owner" of a registered vessel dies, the vessel still, in strict legal terms, belongs to "the Crown" and only "the Crown" can give consent to let a person other than the one who effected the registration use it. That is why the SELLER of a registered vessel has to tell "the Crown" that some other person, the BUYER, wishes to use the vessel. An application for Change of Registration, is in effect, a petition by the Seller to "the Crown" that some other (named) person should be permitted to use "the Crown"'s property.

If an owner of a registered vessel dies intestate, the change of registration may be effected by the "Executor of the Estate" of the deceased. Once the estate has been "wound up", and the property of the deceased has been distributed according to a Court Order, ONLY a Court Order upon "the Crown" to change the registration in favour of a person named in the Court Order can cause the change.

Given that so much of US Law is still a derivation of English law, I would think that you are best advised to contact an attorney specializing in marine law to explore just what it is possible for you to do to resolve your problem.

It seems to me (but I'm not a lawyer, let alone an "attorney") that you will require a Court Order to get the "documentation" changed. You would, I'm sure, get such an order by having an attorney petition the Court of Jurisdiction for you.

Best of British luck to you :-)

TrentePieds

[wyb2]

Wait…what’s the problem? You have a valid state registration, that should be all you need to legally operate the boat, at least in domestic waters.

If you need to reinstate the federal documentation for some reason, then yeah you might have a problem. If you need a title for some reason, then yeah you might have a problem. But is there a specific reason you need either of these things?

[Bill O]

Originally Posted by Shanachie

The Coast Guard has a form to fill out to transfer the title. If I remember correctly, in Florida, the state wanted the complete form approved by the CG before it would consider issuing a title.

There is another form ( of course there is) to withdraw documentation on a boat.

I believe documented boats are left on the register, but listed as dormant, if the fees are not paid. The old owner would still be listed as the last owner.

Did a quick look at the CG forms and there is a form for deletion of CG documentation, but appears to be mainly if there is a mortgage/lien on the boat. If there still is a lien on the boat, then you will have a problem.

[kmacdonald]

Get an attorney. ITS A HUGE PROBLEM.

[Chuck34]

The way I understand this, the boat is still documented to the previous owner. As mentioned above, dormant, but still documented. This needs to be addressed.
While I.’m not a fan of private documentation services (there are some sleazy ones out there), I suggest finding a good one to handle your problem. This is the better route to go vs. a lawyer. Doc services handle problems like this frequently.
Start another thread and ask for recommendations on a local documentation services AND the ones to avoid…there are several. You might want to contact some local boat brokers and ask who they like to use.

[kmacdonald]

The way it really is, the so called "previous owner" is still the present owner. No transfer of ownership took place. Registration or documentation may not have taken place in a timly manner or as required. Then there may be failure to pay sales tax. Im not an attorney but Im pretty sure a handshake sale wont hold water.

[wyb2]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

Get an attorney. ITS A HUGE PROBLEM.

Care to elaborate? Seems like it hasn’t been a problem for 20 years. Seems like the boat is legally registered in the state of residence/use.

Edit: sorry, looks like you did elaborate a few posts later. But still, according to the OP there was a bill of sale, it is legally registered.

[kmacdonald]

Originally Posted by wyb2

Care to elaborate? Seems like it hasn’t been a problem for 20 years. Seems like the boat is legally registered in the state of residence/use.

Boat registration and title are two different things. I tought you had to have both or at least a title before registration. I think he said he didnt have a title. I also think you have to surrender documentation before you can state register.