Jolly Roger, Pirates and Political Correctness

[Tori]

Originally Posted by zeehag

if ye truly wanna play pirates, bounty is for sale--would make a great platform for the gig.....also a decent liveaboard.....

Nah I want The Wanderer from Captain Ron.....

[zeehag]

but wanderer needs sooo much work and they want toooo much for her

[Tori]

Maybe they will get cheaper when no one buys her....

[impi]

Originally Posted by NeptunesTrident

MY Jolly Roger is not cheesy. You don't believe me, come try to take it down.

I am not losing any sleep over your opinion. Normaly, those of you who cast stones and call others names are only simple minded folks. Have been led to the conclusion that someone cares what you think.

No more than you care what I think.

You make a good point - we all have different opinions which is what makes life interesting. What should be added to this philosophy of yours is the fact that some people have come through different life experience which makes an opinion more sensitive for them. For example, a guy like MarkJ has been close to piracy, had friends personally affected by this. I would suggest the subject becomes a much more personal one for him than for you in which case even if I have a different opinion to his, mine would not be as important as is for him. In humility and care for our fellow cruisers who have been affected by piracy I would choose to show humility in my opinion as after all - I choose to become part of a cruisers forum family member.
Peace

[Don1500]

Lets all get on to something more important.

Now Red over Red, can I use that to catch a quick nap?

[MarkJ]

The Red over Red thread is even less read by me than this thread!

Some folks here have an interesting concept of Me, Mine, MINE, MINE. Its probably because they are still cruising in home waters. (This isn't being dismissive of their cruising grounds)
When one heads a bit further out to the Caribbean, Pacific, Med and the further flung cruising grounds many find the Me Mine MINE attitude has gone. Its: We, Ours, Community, Share, Contribute.

We can't do just what we want because we are so reliant on others peoples help and social interaction.
A cruiser in a bay who tilts his outboard at the dinghy dock therefore prone to damage others dinghies may be ostracised, or his call for mechanical advice on the VHF be disregarded.

Sure people can fly whatever flag they want, but then when you get to the bar to make new friends you are well behind the 8 Ball if you're perceived to be a wanker.

Of course some Me Mine MINE people may just prefer to always be off at some remote anchorage and may never have need of company, society, community, assistance etc.

But most of us balance time by ourselves and time with one of the biggest things we miss from home: Community and friends.



Mark

[NeptunesTrident]

Originally Posted by impi

You make a good point - we all have different opinions which is what makes life interesting. What should be added to this philosophy of yours is the fact that some people have come through different life experience which makes an opinion more sensitive for them. For example, a guy like MarkJ has been close to piracy, had friends personally affected by this. I would suggest the subject becomes a much more personal one for him than for you in which case even if I have a different opinion to his, mine would not be as important as is for him. In humility and care for our fellow cruisers who have been affected by piracy I would choose to show humility in my opinion as after all - I choose to become part of a cruisers forum family member.
Peace

Granted. And I do not begruge them their opinion. What I do take objection to is some of these people trying to impose their view onto my behaviour. If someone takes offence at my Jolly little Roger, look another direction. Do not come and try to board my vessel and take it down, or fire shots across my bow. Thats when things really get complicated.

Live and let live. Mind my own business, (and flags). Do not call others names because they have a diffrent opinion. We may not all always agree. But we can all agree not to agree.

[osirissail]

Originally Posted by NeptunesTrident

. . . Live and let live. Mind my own business, (and flags). . . .

See post # 156 - - But one of the main attributes of long term cruising is you can do your own thing off by yourself. It is not common but I do see some cruisers who keep to themselves. If boats start to anchor around them they move off to a quieter location so they can be by themselves. They left land society behind and took to cruising just to get away from the crush of people wanting to intrude on their privacy.
- - In the cruising world you will encounter the "loners", the "sometimes social" and the "avidly social" boats. There is room for everybody, it is a big planet with lots of water.

[NeptunesTrident]

Originally Posted by osirissail

See post # 156 - - But one of the main attributes of long term cruising is you can do your own thing off by yourself. It is not common but I do see some cruisers who keep to themselves. If boats start to anchor around them they move off to a quieter location so they can be by themselves. They left land society behind and took to cruising just to get away from the crush of people wanting to intrude on their privacy.
- - In the cruising world you will encounter the "loners", the "sometimes social" and the "avidly social" boats. There is room for everybody, it is a big planet with lots of water.

Now, that is exactly right.

[Punx]

I fly a Jolly Rodger to symbolize my freedom and general "stick it to the man" attitude. It's a representation of the typical Hollywood pirates, and that's it. I'm not going to take it down or worry about offending people solely based on the fact that modern day thieves adrift with high powered rifles are terrorizing the seas. Yes, they are technically "pirates" but this is not what the flag represents for most that fly it. It represents pretty much everything depicted in any Hollywood movie. Any of you who are so adamantly against flying the Jolly Rodger need to take a big step back.

We are glorifying Hollywood pirates. They're fun, careless, and are usually having a good time. We know this isn't really how it all went down, but it's all in good fun. The only connection that Somalian pirates have with the pirates we are glorifying, is that they steal, loot and kill using a boat as their main method of transportation. That is it. Yes, technically that is all a pirate is, but that's not what we're trying to represent. It's the attitude and lifestyle of Hollywood pirates that are completely different from the kind found in Somalia.

For all the creationists. You believe that god created everything. You walk around with your cross, read the bible, and do the stuff that every good god fearing American does. Now, there are extremists overseas that are killing innocent people in the name of their god. These are horrible despicable acts and they have been going on since people first got the silly notion that some mythical being snapped his fingers and created a whole bunch of **** because he was bored. But that's beside the point.

My point, is that you shouldn't for any reason, denounce your faith, based on the fact that another group of people, who have completely different beliefs and motives are doing something wrong. You, Your Cross, your crucifix and your songs do not represent these people. Just like my Jolly Rodger, My skull and crossbones, and my songs do not in any way represent the Somalian pirates, or any pirates similar to them.

[zeehag]

while i have been out and about, i find there are not many boats with jolly roger flying. none in mexico. i also do not hear jimmy boofay here ... there is a lot of happy sounding music--even lost love music in mexico is happy sounding.. salsa is good with a dancing beat, and folks are in general, celebratory. after work. they are able to smile and whistle and sing while working also...
is very pleasant to leave the usa and the me mine attitude and jolly roger self important attitude behind. most cruisers here are mid road-- some helpful and some to themselves--even the rto themselves folks have good info to share. is truly a community, with many differing points of view, and many differing religious ideals.

[jholder]

Originally Posted by Patient

The generalization still fits though, if I see that flag when coming in to drop the hook I coast an extra 100 yards...

Hmm, so flying the pirate flag will help keep the non-pirate flag flying boats away from me. If I can just figure out what flag will keep the boats away that ARE flying the pirate flag and I hoist both then everyone will leave me alone. Perfect!

[Don1500]

Hmm, so flying the pirate flag will help keep the non-pirate flag flying boats away from me. If I can just figure out what flag will keep the boats away that ARE flying the pirate flag boats and I hoist both then everyone will leave me alone. Perfect!

Try this one, it would keep me away:

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

The Red over Red thread is even less read by me than this thread!

Some folks here have an interesting concept of Me, Mine, MINE, MINE. Its probably because they are still cruising in home waters. (This isn't being dismissive of their cruising grounds)
When one heads a bit further out to the Caribbean, Pacific, Med and the further flung cruising grounds many find the Me Mine MINE attitude has gone. Its: We, Ours, Community, Share, Contribute.

We can't do just what we want because we are so reliant on others peoples help and social interaction.
A cruiser in a bay who tilts his outboard at the dinghy dock therefore prone to damage others dinghies may be ostracised, or his call for mechanical advice on the VHF be disregarded.

Sure people can fly whatever flag they want, but then when you get to the bar to make new friends you are well behind the 8 Ball if you're perceived to be a wanker.

Of course some Me Mine MINE people may just prefer to always be off at some remote anchorage and may never have need of company, society, community, assistance etc.

But most of us balance time by ourselves and time with one of the biggest things we miss from home: Community and friends.



Mark

You just about nailed it in one MarkJ..... its usually the local US/UK/Anglosaxon expats fly those things.... 80% are power boaters... the rest are sail and one look says... 'Oh **** its a Charter boat'
Europeans tend to a bit more maturity...
I've not known a 'serious cruiser' to fly one...

[Bash]

Originally Posted by boatman61

80% are power boaters... the rest are sail and one look says... 'Oh **** its a Charter boat'
Europeans tend to a bit more maturity...
I've not known a 'serious cruiser' to fly one...

One of my students cleans charter boats as a summer job. He's got a whole box of pirate flags that charterers left behind.