Jolly Roger, Pirates and Political Correctness

[shamrock]

If modern Somali pirates wore eye patches, said "aaarrh" frequently and flew the jolly rogers themselves, I would understand the view of those who are offended by cruisers flying a jolly Rogers, but the fact is that Modern pirates probably don't know what a jolly Rogers is.

comparing a jolly Rogers flag to a white hood worn by KKK or a swastika is ridiculous because modern KKK DO wear white hoods and Neo Nazis display swastikas.

[VirtualVagabond]

This is starting to feel a hell of a lot like Groundhog Day

Long time since I've actually become so bored with a thread

[coyfish9906]

We could always settel this the ole fashion way...lol we could make potato guns and have it out at sea..that would be the funniest thing I've ever seen...we could tape it and put it on the internet. We would all be stars...I can see it now....lol

[zeehag]

i think the rocna recall threads are more boring..... this one has info on good knives and bad spray and blow em up fun stuff.....

[wolfaroo]

wow 23 pages of some of the most entrenched narrow-minded drivel on the whole forum. this thread has made me seriously consider flying a jolly roger in my next anchorage just to make sure I don't get bored to death by any new neighbours.

whips welcome aboard too of course (sorry, ladies only).

[SaucySailoress]

Originally Posted by VirtualVagabond

This is starting to feel a hell of a lot like Groundhog Day

Long time since I've actually become so bored with a thread

Which is a shame, since it is sometimes fun to have a light-hearted thread... however, I am fed up of deleting posts from (usually new) members who don't understand the difference between funny and insulting. Keep it nice, or I load up the canons.

[avb3]

Originally Posted by Katiusha

So after reading up on all of this I'm starting to think that maybe I would not be so disquieted next time I see a Jolly Rogers flying on a cruising boat - what true pirate in their right mind declares being a pirate to the world? Obviously it'll be a fake. I'd still be worried to cross paths with a submarine with a Jolly Rogers. Maybe the following flag would be more of a worry:



Peace

Had to look that one up.

Interesting the VERY close resemblance of the above Somalian flag and the fore bearer of the Stars and Bars.

Confederate banner (Republic of West Florida):

[avb3]

Originally Posted by zeehag

i think the rocna recall threads are more boring..... this one has info on good knives and bad spray and blow em up fun stuff.....

Look at this thread as CF's equivalent of any reality show on TV.. kinda interesting with a lot of mindless drivel, mine included

[MarinerJo]

Originally Posted by Katiusha

Some US air squadrons also fly Jolly Roger as their insignia.

Peace

That's correct, VF-103 "Jolley Rogers" formerly VF-84. Carrier based US Navy suadron. Been around since WW2.

[minaret]

Originally Posted by coyfish9906

We could always settel this the ole fashion way...lol we could make potato guns and have it out at sea..that would be the funniest thing I've ever seen...we could tape it and put it on the internet. We would all be stars...I can see it now....lol

A friend and I used to have boat to boat paintball wars. We even did some dinghy landings on a hostile beach. It was great fun! A combination of racing under sail, and paintball. We also made giant surgical tubing slingshots we could attach to our shrouds to fire water balloons at each others boats for "cannon". It's hard to steer a small sailboat when you're lying down in the cockpit footwell! This was back when I had small old plastic sailboats that I wasn't worried about keeping pretty. Mine was an Islander 26' at the time. Lining up to fire a "broadside" was great...

[rgscpat]

Originally Posted by Don1500

What the F___K are you talking about? And how does this relate to Piracy and flying the Jolly Roger?

Okay, let's draw it out for you:

MUTINY!

Pirates -- rebelled from bad pay and harsh treatment in conventional navies, took over ships, sometimes flew Death Head or other pirate flags, for a time created a "Pirate Republic" in the Bahamas, elected their own captains, used force on those opposed to them, might make enemies walk the plank

Rebellion at the Nore -- rebelled against bad conditions, mutinied and took over ships, flew flags of rebellion, put officers ashore forcibly, threatened to take their ships over to the French enemy or maybe even turn pirate, blockaded the Thames, for a time created Parker's "floating republic", elected their own captains and delegates, used force on anyone opposed to the mutiny, hung rope ends from the yard arms to threaten to hang anyone opposed to them

People who might try to argue that pirates were some depraved criminal class would be stymied by the fact that the mutineers had been regular Royal Navy crews -- and that most pirates had been honest Royal Navy sailors and merchantmen.

Here is an important lesson for modern times: If there's enough temptation (booty), motivation (harsh conditions at home), and few enough consequences (lack of strong international response), then regular people will turn pirate and piracy will re-ignite. Just the way it is off Somalia today. Why can't the world learn from history?

It's like the "fire triangle" -- take away either the temptation, motivation, or lack of consequences and the pirates will be extinguished. And then cruisers can sail in relative safety and not get hassled about wearing black eye patches.

Pirates and mutineers could all be seen in the friendly view as being like cruisers in escaping from harsh, land-based authority and seeking more liberty and democracy. Not to mention the rum. And those who deplore modern piracy might do well to know the history of crime at sea so as to know how to predict the behavior of pirates and know what it will take to stop them.

I don't think we're going to give Don either a red or green cockade.

[VirtualVagabond]

Originally Posted by Katiusha

I've always thought that flying Jolly Roger is very incensitive. Why? Because the first association with Jolly Roger is "pirates". The first association with "pirates" is "Somalia" (list of engaged ships in 2011: List of ships attacked by Somali pirates in 2011 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

If you were one of the people kidnapped or if you saw one of your buddies killed in front of your eyes by pirates, would you appreciate seeing a sign proclaiming that another boat on your anchorage is a "pirate", albeit "a Hollywood one"? I would say that such attitude could be similar to wearing white hoods, standing by the burning cross, and explaining and "it's just the Hollywood movie we like". Another example would be walking with your arm stretched out forward with your palm down and a Hindu peace/good luck sign on your sleeve and saying that you "just like the bright future described by The Leader"

Nevertheless, it's always good to read up on the topic. Turns out that contemporary use of Jolly Roger (like someone already mentioned here) was started by British Navy, specifically by Admiral Sir Arthur Wilson. He stated that submarines were "underhand, unfair, and damned un-English", and that he would convince the British Admiralty to have the crews of enemy submarines captured during wartime hanged as pirates. So HMS E9, after torpedoing SMS Hela, displayed Jolly Roger upon entering port. Thus modern tradition started in British Navy.

The last time Jolly Roger was flown by British Navy was in June 2011 by HMS Triumph on returning from Operation Ellamy in Libya with 6 Tomahawk axes indicating fired missiles. Some US air squadrons also fly Jolly Roger as their insignia.

So after reading up on all of this I'm starting to think that maybe I would not be so disquieted next time I see a Jolly Rogers flying on a cruising boat - what true pirate in their right mind declares being a pirate to the world? Obviously it'll be a fake. I'd still be worried to cross paths with a submarine with a Jolly Rogers. Maybe the following flag would be more of a worry:



Peace

Well that was an interesting change of point of view halfway through the post

[VirtualVagabond]

Originally Posted by SaucySailoress

Which is a shame, since it is sometimes fun to have a light-hearted thread... however, I am fed up of deleting posts from (usually new) members who don't understand the difference between funny and insulting. Keep it nice, or I load up the canons.

Don't get me wrong. I've really enjoyed a lot of this thread too, as mentioned about page 5!

It just struck me that some posters were coming on as though they hadn't read the earlier, virtually identical posts, and therefore Groundhogging... (I think I just invented a new word )

The massive tangents into guns, flags, history etc were interesting too, initially.

I guess it feels like I'm reading a novel that is good enough to want to get to the end, but the sub plots can drive you up the wall

Incidentally, your new Av has just livened up the interest factor no end

[zeehag]

classic elvgren..i found those useful also.... fun stuff.

[coyfish9906]

Originally Posted by minaret

A friend and I used to have boat to boat paintball wars. We even did some dinghy landings on a hostile beach. It was great fun! A combination of racing under sail, and paintball. We also made giant surgical tubing slingshots we could attach to our shrouds to fire water balloons at each others boats for "cannon". It's hard to steer a small sailboat when you're lying down in the cockpit footwell! This was back when I had small old plastic sailboats that I wasn't worried about keeping pretty. Mine was an Islander 26' at the time. Lining up to fire a "broadside" was great...

Very nice. Haha I was thinkin a potato gun might actually put a decent hole in a vessel. That actually gives me an idea. What do u think of starting a gameing society where u float out raiseing a jolly roger or an east indian trading company flag have lil paint ball engagement. On little plastic boats of coarse in shallow water. It could be a hell of a time. Every one could vent a lil frustration and we could play pirate...the fictional Hollywood ones...win win if u ask me