Jolly Roger, Pirates and Political Correctness

[Matt sachs]

So, is it ok to sashay during a swashbuckle? Jhonny Depp does it well, but is it PC?

[NeptunesTrident]

Originally Posted by nv5l

Well, military gets a pass. ;-)

Btw, do US subs fly them these days? I've been out a long time and can't remember seeing any. But I was just a passenger in the gator navy, not crew.

I was not Navy, but Army. The last sub I set foot on was at San Clemente Island, and they were not flying a flag at the time. While coming into, while in and leaving port I am sure they do fly the flag.

I asked that question because I have a very good friend, Vogal, that served with the SeAL's for several years. He flys both flags when he leaves the bay. I did not mean for folks to think I was SeAL. I did complete BUDS training. I never knew one could be so cold.

[NeptunesTrident]

Ok, here is a modern day Jolly Roger, and a WW II example.

[webejammin]

Great looking buntch of pirates from WW2

[NeptunesTrident]

Originally Posted by webejammin

Great looking buntch of pirates from WW2

Yes, they are a jolly looking bunch.

[minaret]

Pretty sure that "jolly looking bunch" are german submariners. Unrestricted u-boat warfare is not nice. Though I still think Gunther Prien was a bold one....

[minaret]

Looks more WWI than WWII as well. Thats not a Type VII or Type IX. Could be a "duck" though. Imperial War Museum stuff is usually WWI British, suppose it could be a British training sub circa WWI....

[NeptunesTrident]

Originally Posted by minaret

Pretty sure that "jolly looking bunch" are german submariners. Unrestricted u-boat warfare is not nice. Though I still think Gunther Prien was a bold one....

The personnel of the British submarine HMS Utmost showing off their Jolly Roger in February 1942. The markings on the flag indicate the boat's achievements: nine ships torpedoed (including one warship), eight 'cloak and dagger' operations, one target destroyed by gunfire, and one at-sea rescue.

They be Brits, mate.

[Astrid]

The British submarine service traditionally use the jolly roger to signify a successful wartime patrol in much the same way as US subs fixed a broom to the periscope standard to signify a clean sweep (successful patrol). Curiously, when the Germans surrendered in 1945, German U-boats at sea were instructed to hoist a black flag, dump munitions overboard, and proceed to allied ports to surrender. The use of a black flag for this purpose (dark blue was also authorized should black not be available) was due to technicalities in the wording of the Hague convention. A combatant could surrender or conduct a truce under a white flag, but as German U-boats were no longer classified as enemy combatants after the surrender, an alternative colour had to be chosen. The choice of black as the first preference offended the German U-boat crews as they felt the British were reducing them from being honourable sailors fighting for their homeland to pirates.

[NeptunesTrident]

Originally Posted by Astrid

The British submarine service traditionally use the jolly roger to signify a successful wartime patrol in much the same way as US subs fixed a broom to the periscope standard to signify a clean sweep (successful patrol). Curiously, when the Germans surrendered in 1945, German U-boats at sea were instructed to hoist a black flag, dump munitions overboard, and proceed to allied ports to surrender. The use of a black flag for this purpose (dark blue was also authorized should black not be available) was due to technicalities in the wording of the Hague convention. A combatant could surrender or conduct a truce under a white flag, but as German U-boats were no longer classified as enemy combatants after the surrender, an alternative colour had to be chosen. The choice of black as the first preference offended the German U-boat crews as they felt the British were reducing them from being honourable sailors fighting for their homeland to pirates.

I see we have a military history buff here.

[Astrid]

Too true, I am.

[NeptunesTrident]

It kind of shows in your Avitar. And a steel boat. Seems you kind of go aginst the common school of thought.

A rugged individualist, type.

[Matt sachs]

I'm impressed.

[redcobra]

Originally Posted by CoastalCowboy

Well, by all means. Lets stop letting people fly the Confederate Flag, regardless of the reason for flying it, because some people think it represents slavery. Lets make all motorcycle riders drop the popular references in graphics and paraphernalia to motorcycle gangs, cause after all they were pretty bad guys too. The University of Oklahoma should stop calling themselves the Sooners, because that's a reference to the "Sooners" who cheated in the land run. Robin Hood was a highwat robber, better not glamorize him anymore. Then again, America, the UK, France and most of the western powers embraced slavery at one time, maybe we better quit flying our national flags. But wait, all that sounds silly doesn't it. Just like condemning the flying of a flag that isn't even used by the people today who are the basis for the condemning of the jolly roger.

Ya had me until you brought up the Jimmy Buffet crap. He's no musician...just a singer.

[NeptunesTrident]

Originally Posted by minaret

Pretty sure that "jolly looking bunch" are german submariners. Unrestricted u-boat warfare is not nice. Though I still think Gunther Prien was a bold one....

My question is what type of warfare is nice?