Is Cruisers sailing forum losing it's way

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by socaldmax

Right after the bold part, you then explained exactly why that statement was wrong. Notice how I said "that statement" rather than "you." It's very easy to offer a dissenting view without personalizing it or denigrating others. All you have to do is care enough to make the small effort.

I think you have mixed up my own opinions and forum admins'/owners' goals. What I think is less relevant than what they think as they run CF not me. That was my point.

As far as"not seeing the real bullying" I caveated this by saying "other than outing one's names/addresses or showing up at their door, etc, etc". I believe if one VOLUNTARILY registers on a public forum with their real name and/or other easily identifiable personal information one is no different than someone opening their front door wide and declaring to all passersby that they have X amount of $$ inside and will be going to work soon. IMO no difference whatsoever. And if the current generation does not think these things through and subjects themselves to the consequences of this thinking, or rather lack thereof, it is not exclusively "bully's" fault but their own as well. Kind of like a person running across a 6 lane highway and then wondering why they got hit and demanding that someone puts a stop to all these people "trying to run him over".

PS How can any interaction between 2 or more anonymous posters be classified as "bullying"? Again other than outing, against the person's will, their names and other personal info.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Some of the problems I've noticed:

Members who are contributing a lot are often stalked on this forum by those who have called what looks like a Jihad on them. Every post is scrutenized in an effort to try to explain it in a way that makes it wrong or mean... when that is countered by logical reasoning, the fight is continued with a flood of pm's

Edit

Then there are those who need to post how something should be done or handled while they have absolutely no clue; they have never done it themselves, they have had no education on the subject, they are wrong (often on purpose just as flame bait) and they get some sick kind of orgasm by posting such nonsense.... and it is allowed by the rules, even when done on purpose.

Sounds very familiar, and is the reason why I'm imposing a self transfer. Reached a point where I can't write anything on any subject on any thread... future participation will be a complete waste of time.

[Ribbit]

Originally Posted by boatman61

I doubt it ever really will.. unlike many of the 'Empires' we were never really hated by the masses.. and that I find evident with the ease and relative friendliness with which I can move around certain parts of the world other nationalities may consider dubious.. most citizens members of the Commonwealth have a greater personal sense of comfort in fellow country's for some inexplicable reason.. a sense of alliance.
Else country's would not try to get back in when kicked out.. like Pakistan at least once..
Dunno about the kids tho'..
<<<<<<<<<<<<This sun is definitely setting..

It's because Countries essentially ran their own affairs, with the denial of power under the Rule of Law. If something went wrong, via the High Commissioner, there was the appeal to a higher authority available - to everybody. So petty local power grabbers were easily taken down a peg or two, or removed from positions of influence.

It was the same here in Britain too. At the peak of the Empire, when Germany and France had armies in the millions, before the Boer War, we only had 160,000 men at arms.

Now the biggest insight of all . . . . . . . .

Civil Servants?

About 4,000.

(now over 1,000,000, plus regional assembly bureaucracies and staff, plus massive Local Government bureaucracies and staff)

[oldragbaggers]

Originally Posted by socaldmax

I've read every post in this thread, including boatie's, which were mostly about beer. Now he often has some good wisdom to impart, including about drinking, apparently, and he also posts quite a bit, even if it's not always on topic.


He reminds me quite a bit of another poster on a different website. He freely admits he had a pet dinosaur, invented beer, drinks more than his fair share of booze, posts some great pics of beautiful women, does a lot of interesting stuff for an octogenarian (photography of said women, wrenches on race cars, helps write articles and edits articles on chassis design and suspension dynamics, teaches IT at a local JC and resells used computers, etc) so he's a jack of all trades and will chase your daughter if you don't watch him closely.

However, he was derailing a lot of threads with his meandering posts so they decided to give him his own forum, to post anything he wanted to post and let him moderate it, mostly so he could move posts clearly in the "out there" genre into his forum, where anything could be discussed, from politics to beer to guns and sex with space aliens.

I'm suggesting boatie be given his own forum to postulate and pontificate and rule as he sees fit, and we can all get into an in depth discussion of beer there. It could be a subforum of the off topic forum. For the other guy, they put an easy password on the forum to keep the easily offended out. After all, if you go to the trouble to punch in a password knowing what's behind the door, you don't really have the right to complain when you find it.


I only mention it because it worked really well for the other forum, it was a waaay off topic forum that helped keep the other forums more tightly focused, and I only mention boatie because of the similarity in age and wide range of interest, although the other guy was the landlubber version.

It's just an idea, be nice! LOL

I vote that we just let Boatie write whatever he wants, wherever he wants. At least he's writing it while sailing.

[Ribbit]

Originally Posted by OldFrog75

Interesting take. A regular contributor recently went to another site and one of his complaints was his perception of unfettered encouragement of newbies to buy a boat and sail the world.

Like most things, I guess it's all in the eye of the beholder.

I missed this post.

From what I have seen, this is not correct.

If someone hasn't sailed before, from what I have seen time and again, the encouragement is just about always "Buy a cheap dinghy and learn to sail first."

Have I missed a lot of advice that's any different to that?

[Canibul]

Originally Posted by socaldmax

The real measure of obnoxiousness is, how many people have you on their ignore list?

Yeah, is there any way to find out?

The two on my ignore list are there simply because the majority of times I got into an exchange with either of them, it turned ugly and mean . So often that I hated to see either of them post in a thread I was following. So now, I don't see what they write, and so I don't respond to whatever it was they wrote, and life goes on a little bit smoother.

I'd love to see a forum in which every topic had to be about some identifiable aspect of boating, and in which an obnoxious troublemaker/troll could be voted into a time-out for some period (a week?) by some acceptable percentage of members. say, 5%. Maybe a "dislike" button and a running total of gigs would do it. That might make for a much more pleasant exchange of ideas.

An armed society is a polite society.

[Sailing55]

Originally Posted by socaldmax

I've read every post in this thread, including boatie's, which were mostly about beer. Now he often has some good wisdom to impart, including about drinking, apparently, and he also posts quite a bit, even if it's not always on topic.


He reminds me quite a bit of another poster on a different website. He freely admits he had a pet dinosaur, invented beer, drinks more than his fair share of booze, posts some great pics of beautiful women, does a lot of interesting stuff for an octogenarian (photography of said women, wrenches on race cars, helps write articles and edits articles on chassis design and suspension dynamics, teaches IT at a local JC and resells used computers, etc) so he's a jack of all trades and will chase your daughter if you don't watch him closely.

However, he was derailing a lot of threads with his meandering posts so they decided to give him his own forum, to post anything he wanted to post and let him moderate it, mostly so he could move posts clearly in the "out there" genre into his forum, where anything could be discussed, from politics to beer to guns and sex with space aliens.

I'm suggesting boatie be given his own forum to postulate and pontificate and rule as he sees fit, and we can all get into an in depth discussion of beer there. It could be a subforum of the off topic forum. For the other guy, they put an easy password on the forum to keep the easily offended out. After all, if you go to the trouble to punch in a password knowing what's behind the door, you don't really have the right to complain when you find it.


I only mention it because it worked really well for the other forum, it was a waaay off topic forum that helped keep the other forums more tightly focused, and I only mention boatie because of the similarity in age and wide range of interest, although the other guy was the landlubber version.

It's just an idea, be nice! LOL

The Brits have a language and culture unto themselves, which, admittedly, does take some getting used to, but I, personally, find Boatman to be one of the most relevant people on this forum. What he says actually makes a lot of sense, even if it sounds off topic. When one lives in a world outside the norm one has a different view of what is "proper" and what is not. Maybe he is trying to lighten up the conversation by asking us to laugh at ourselves. Then again maybe he just sees everything in life as how it relates to beer! Either way, when I read one of his comments I have to back off for a moment and give it a think...

And that, at least to me, is a good thing. When guys like him are no longer relevant, we all lose.

[avb3]

What a great thread.

As one of those mods who has interacted with some due to necessity, it is refreshing to read your constructive comments here. It is also great to see many who are commenting who one may not see all that often, and yes, we are listening. Will we be able to satisfy all?

Nope, and we don't pretend to either. We do however, value this type of constructive critique, and particularly interesting is that very few comments in what could have become a contentious thread needed moderating.

What a great group we have here, from all perspectives. Thank you for being part of our community, thank you for the expertise given, and thank you for the questions. We all were neophytes at some point; there are no stupid questions, there are some answers that are given that the poster should think twice about before pressing answer at times.

And thank you for some of the banter that IS part of the community.

Remember, no politics unless it is directly related to a sailing topic, and....

Stay nice.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Then there is boatman... he drinks all your Tanquerey so steer clear of him

Hey Jedi.. Welcome back mate...
Timely arrival as it happens.. some irriut here thinks I specialise in beer..
Tanqueray Phil a beer expert... that'll be the day..

[Paul Elliott]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

When somebody posts something that is clearly, without doubt, wrong, then we can't reply saying "you are wrong", which is considered too rude to post.

Jedi, you're wrong.

You're wrong about this. From time to time I tell someone they're wrong, even to the point of being quite blunt about it. I've been doing that long before I became a moderator. I still do it. And I'm far from the only one correcting misinformation.

And occasionally I get corrected too. As long as we remain civil about it there shouldn't be a problem.

By the way, when I post, unless otherwise noted, I post as a regular member. I've had my own posts get deleted or edited by other moderators too. Sometimes I even agreed with that decision.

[Ribbit]

Originally Posted by Canibul

Yeah, is there any way to find out?

.

I just tell them straight when they have seriously crossed the line, in the pertinent thread.

Some can't handle it though, and run crying to mods to get the post deleted.

[jongleur]

an obnoxious troublemaker/troll could be voted into a time-out for some period (a week?) by some acceptable percentage of members. say, 5%. Maybe a "dislike" button and a running total of gigs would do it.

Reddit has something like this.
If a post gets a certain number
of downvotes over upvotes it
gets put in a sort of quarantine.

[sailorchic34]

[QUOTE=Island Time O25;2045839How can any interaction between 2 or more anonymous posters be classified as "bullying"?[/QUOTE]

Being abusive and or bullying between anonymous posters, is still being abusive and or bullying. We've all seen it and know what it looks like. Lets not even go there.

[Janet H]

Really interesting thread and many opinions. I thought it might be worth touching on a few issues raised here...

The community rules are worth a read. They have evolved over time to reflect the community we desire to have and to address issues that are consistently difficult for the community. There was a time when these rules were much shorter and basically said: Be nice, be reasonable, be appropriate. The fine print has evolved because each one of us understands those terms differently.

Regarding restriction of political speech: Cruisers forum is and was always intended to be primarily about sailing and related topics. This is the common interest for members and the reason the board exists. Many of the forums rules were set in place to help keep a focus on this and the reason political and religious discussions are limited. They become heated and shift the focus of the board away from boating.

Censorship: Typically the site team doesn't actively moderate a topic just because they disagree with opinions posted. Heck, we don't remove posts EVEN when advice might be stupid, dangerous or daft. It's up to readers to mull over opinions and then form their own. Moderator actions are surprisingly few and we don't edit content without notifying a member about the edit and the reasons for that edit.

Checks and balances: When there appears to be a problem thread or post what typically happens is that some one reports the problem - usually a member involved in the fray. A moderator may respond in one of several ways. They may message involved parties and try to smooth things over or calm the situation. Occasionally they may temporarily remove the post in question from public view pending a review by the site team. At that point the site team discusses how to proceed, determines if there is a problem and then arrives at a course of action; either restoring the content, sending PMs to those involved or taking some other action including removing the content in question. Interestingly this happens quite rarely. But one of the most important functions of moderators is participating in these decisions - we each have different opinions and unilateral decision making is discouraged so that we can find a moderate response to a problem. Most moderation actions are taken after a back room discussion about how best to proceed and reflect the will of the entire site team. Moderators are VOLUNTEERS and it's hard duty. They are also people who sail and are entitled to opinions and often post them. Moderators are encouraged to stand down from moderating if the issue involves their own posts. Other site team members will take up the concern.

About the Be nice rule: The devil's in the details. This is the crux of most issues on the forum. Our members come from widely varying backgrounds, geo-locations and social strata. We each have a unique threshold for what constitutes "nice" and members often find themselves navigating "Nice" with fuzzy charts. Where one member thinks a comment is funny, another may be mightily offended. Interestingly a small handful of members are the target of the majority of complaints. Some folks take grave offense when another member disagrees with them and react in ways that inflame a situation, ramping up hostilities. Predictably, we have a small handful of members who thrive on stirring the pot with very little return other than drama. Nice is relative.

The reason for the be nice rule is that conflict that escalates to name calling and insults is a distraction from the topic at hand; cruising. Forum drama becomes the center of attention instead of great discussions about sailing. Drama drives away shy posters, new members and novice sailors who don't want to be on the receiving end of a cyber beatdown.

Every forum has it's own vibe and there is room in the ether for all of them. Other forums make different choices and that's fine but unfortunately sometimes folks who belong to more that one board forget the rules of the site they have logged into. Consider a factory gate bar vs. a bar at a marina, vs. a bar at a high end yacht club. All are bars, all serve beer but the behavior standards for patrons are different at each establishment. We aim for the marina bar paradigm. Everyone is welcome and there is no dress code but brawls and catcalls are not acceptable.

Occasionally evaluating how we're doing is productive. Over the years we have done this repeatedly and we will continue. The real value of a forum is the members who participate and help each other and we would like the CF to be a reflection of the sailing community at large. Helpful, fun, open to new adventure and supportive. Thanks for your input. It's a good mirror and your are comments well considered.

[SV Siren]

I have noticed on some forums that bullying does happen, and I do have to say what I have seen here is mild, as opposed to...say SA. On SA it gets taken to a whole new level, it is almost an art form there.

One common thing I have noticed between the different forums is the availability to be able to see where a certain user is posting on different threads, something I personally do not understand the need for. It would make it much harder to troll someone, or hunt their posts down on the forums.

I am a relative newbie on many topics, and respect the input of others when I have no first hand knowledge. Being able to tell someone that they are incorrect, or inaccurate on something is just plain good for everyone...except for some ones ego, which as an adult, should thick skin to it.