Hero to zero with one phone call!

[Bay Breeze]

Originally Posted by hughespat57

I'm no lawyer but this particular excuse is a bit sketchy.

Summary of Tie-In Contract
An arrangement by which a desired product (tying product) can be purchased only upon agreement to purchase certain other products (tied products). Tie-in contracts are largely forbidden by the antitrust Clayton Act.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clayto...st_Act_of_1914
sales on the condition that (A) the buyer or lessee not deal with the competitors of the seller or lessor ("exclusive dealings") or (B) the buyer also purchase another different product ("tying") but only when these acts substantially lessen competition (Act Section 3, codified at 15 U.S.C. § 14

[AJA]

Originally Posted by Bay Breeze

Purged from marina slip!

We think Safe Harbor iRockland is about the best facilty in Maine. Location, dock staff, amenities and upkeep are tip-top.

We rated them 5 stars yesterday on dockwa. This morning we got a call informing us we would not have a seasonal slip in 2023 because we would not be winter storing with them. Todays rating is zero.

After three years at this marina we feel discarded by a corporate giant. ….call Corporate in Dallas if you have a problem with our new policy.

Our choice for storage was informed somewhat by cost - about 25% more than nearby Journeys End but also by failure to deliver on promises for boat service by the SH predecessor when we transported our tiara 3100 to Maine from Florida.

Bottom line - your only guarantee for some marinas is the bottom line on their balance sheet.

What you need to do is join and participate in a yacht club.
These are communities of boaters that truest care for each other.

[MicHughV]

There seems to be a notion that boating is only done by rich people.
Your mom and pop type boater has slowly but surely been squeezed out by higher marina rates.

Interestingly enough, about a year or two ago, during the height of the so-called pandemic, there seemed to be a big rush for people with lotsa $$ to buy the biggest, baddest, fanciest fishing boat they could find. Four engines on the transom was mandatory. Nothing less than 350 hp per engine, thank you very much. Mom and pop were buying up the smaller single engine center consoles. Our local boat dealer couldn't keep boats on the lot.

Our local marina set out to capture the newbie buyers and their fancy toys, by jacking dockage rates thru' the roof, chasing off mom and pop sailor and corralling the newbie batch of power boaters.

In this endeavor they were successfully. Plans were made to build onsite condo's for the new boaters.

Then came the gas crunch, and even folks with lotsa $$$ said, whoa, enough is enough.
Today all these fancy machines sit on their cradles and never move. Nobody wants to buy them either, because the average Joe can't afford a boat sucking $500/hr of gas to run.
Condo plans have been shelved.

A cursory ride thru' town will show driveway after driveway with your basic 23' center console parked on there. It's clear, that none are being used.

The gas price has been the big leveler. Marina gas, is, off course the non-ethanol brand, and this comes at a price. Easily 50% more than regular gas.

It's rare to see a boat on the ICW these days. The condo plans never materialized.

I think it won't be long and the pendulum will swing the other way.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

There seems to be a notion that boating is only done by rich people.
Your mom and pop type boater has slowly but surely been squeezed out by higher marina rates.

Interestingly enough, about a year or two ago, during the height of the so-called pandemic, there seemed to be a big rush for people with lotsa $$ to buy the biggest, baddest, fanciest fishing boat they could find. Four engines on the transom was mandatory. Nothing less than 350 hp per engine, thank you very much. Mom and pop were buying up the smaller single engine center consoles. Our local boat dealer couldn't keep boats on the lot.

Our local marina set out to capture the newbie buyers and their fancy toys, by jacking dockage rates thru' the roof, chasing off mom and pop sailor and corralling the newbie batch of power boaters.

In this endeavor they were successfully. Plans were made to build onsite condo's for the new boaters.

Then came the gas crunch, and even folks with lotsa $$$ said, whoa, enough is enough.
Today all these fancy machines sit on their cradles and never move. Nobody wants to buy them either, because the average Joe can't afford a boat sucking $500/hr of gas to run.
Condo plans have been shelved.

A cursory ride thru' town will show driveway after driveway with your basic 23' center console parked on there. It's clear, that none are being used.

The gas price has been the big leveler. Marina gas, is, off course the non-ethanol brand, and this comes at a price. Easily 50% more than regular gas.

It's rare to see a boat on the ICW these days. The condo plans never materialized.

I think it won't be long and the pendulum will swing the other way.

I'd call that a pretty good assessment.

On the non ethanol thing, I'm happy to spend a dollar less per gallon to put the ethanol stuff in the boat. It ran on it for 15 years in an area where that's all that's available, so I don't feel the price premium for ethanol free is worth it. No choice at the gas docks around here though. The only way to get the cheaper E10 stuff if to carry it yourself.

[MicHughV]

You can get ethanol free gas at some area gas stations, but it comes at a premium..where regular gas is now around $3.35....ethanol free gas is at $3.75 at a gas station
At the marina you'll pay around $5.75 for it. They have a captive market there.

I used to run a twin engined fishing boat....twin Yammies 150. At cruise, that thing would eat anywhere from 15-20 gal/hour depending on sea condition..roughly $100/hr....obviously bigger and more engines will be quadruple that.
My boat had a 150 gallon fuel tank......over $800 to " fill 'er up"...I never did, as it was painful enough to fork over $3-400 for a day's fishing.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

You can get ethanol free gas at some area gas stations, but it comes at a premium..where regular gas is now around $3.35....ethanol free gas is at $3.75 at a gas station
At the marina you'll pay around $5.75 for it. They have a captive market there.

I used to run a twin engined fishing boat....twin Yammies 150. At cruise, that thing would eat anywhere from 15-20 gal/hour depending on sea condition..roughly $100/hr....obviously bigger and more engines will be quadruple that.
My boat had a 150 gallon fuel tank......over $800 to " fill 'er up"...I never did, as it was painful enough to fork over $3-400 for a day's fishing.

Around here ethanol free 90 octane is usually about a dollar more than the 89 octane E10 the boat would otherwise get. Marina price for E0 is usually about 50 - 70 cents above street price here.

Fuel wise, I know that pain. We carry 420 gallons of gas. At a nice slow cruise of 6.5 - 7 kts, burn rate is about 5 gal/hr. Step it up to 17 kts and we're burning about 30 gal/hr.

[Lake-Effect]

I'm glad that we chose to do our boating through membership in a yacht club. It's a modest self-help club, not a posh country club with docks. Besides the community aspect and the reciprocal arrangements, the cost of keeping our boat on the water is less than at a marina, and hauling in/out and winter storage are included. Yes prices are occasionally raised, and they recently put on a "minimum" slip fee which sees us paying the same as a 4' longer boat (), but it's still affordable, and there's no danger of being denied space or forced out, except for non-payment or gross violation of club rules.

For the owners of small/inexpensive boats, forming a club or organization may be the only way to have enough clout to secure space on the water when government-owned shoreline is open to development.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by hughespat57

I'm no lawyer but this particular excuse is a bit sketchy.

Summary of Tie-In Contract
An arrangement by which a desired product (tying product) can be purchased only upon agreement to purchase certain other products (tied products). Tie-in contracts are largely forbidden by the antitrust Clayton Act.

IANAL either, but in the case of a limited resource (slips) where there's more demand than supply, the supplier is likely free to set their own criteria for priority on the list... and that could include favouring "all-in" customers (slip, storage, launch/haulout, service, etc) over customers who only want a part of the offering. The marina may also be allowed to decide that they no longer offer "slip-only" as a product.

[Rackman]

Safe Harbor where I am forces you to hire them for some sort of winter work in order to be accepted for winter storage.

[MicHughV]

I get that a marina is a "business"...I don't know about other States, but in Florida, most marina's have to " rent" their marina dockage space thru' a so -called " submerged land lease" from the State, plus dock maintenance, bulkhead maintenance, fuel dock, employee's, etc. There are a few isolate places where an owner will "own" submerged lands, but that is extremely rare.

None the less, in past years, my local marina used to be filled to the brim with sailboats. There was not one open slip anywhere. Plenty of docked power boats as well, trawlers, etc. The drystack building was also full with mom and pop center consoles and a few larger boats, they place was doing a brisk business. They had a waiting list for people to get in there. On any given day, there would be a dozen boats out fishing. On the weekends, it would be quadruple that.

Today, the marina is easily 3/4 empty. A small handful of sailboats and few small power boats. The drystack building is mostly quiet. There are "rental" boats, but nobody ever seems to use these.

In the past, every month, there was a party for all boat owners. Food and drink provided by management.

These days...zilch !

I don't know for how long, a marina can last under these terms.
For sure, mom and pop paid the bills in the past. Now the high rollers have got to fork it out, for boats they never use.

Interestingly, some years ago , there was the "condo craze". Area marina's getting bought out and condo's being built. You could have your own dock outside your unit, at a price off course. Prices went flying thru' the roof.
These days, you can get those same condo's for a song. The marina basin is half full.

I couldn't tell you where it will all end, but this is what I see.

[cdreid]

Originally Posted by hughespat57

I'm no lawyer but this particular excuse is a bit sketchy.

Summary of Tie-In Contract
An arrangement by which a desired product (tying product) can be purchased only upon agreement to purchase certain other products (tied products). Tie-in contracts are largely forbidden by the antitrust Clayton Act.

14

Gj researching the law. But i dont think this applies. Theyre not requiring a tie in contract theyre simply prioritising those with contracts. It's a thin but razor sharp line.
Example. Im a trucker who along w one coworker only deal with one factory. We are critical to that them. Another company offers them a lower rate for 20% of their business but only 20%. We tell them they take the deal and we walk. Theyre f*cked. But it isnt a tie in contract.. i and the other guy will quit.. our company has to offer us the same money for 20% less work or we walk and it becomes unprofitable. That isnt a tie in or anticompetitive.