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Old 06-10-2018, 09:07   #16
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Re: Going around a broker

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Originally Posted by stainless guy View Post
So finally looking for our big boat for extended cruising with my family, found one for close to the right price in the right part of the world with the majority of the features we want. We went to look at it and met the owner prior to the broker showing up talked with him for awhile and gleaned much more info than the broker could provide once we were looking the broker rushed us off the boat after about an hour he was quite pushy actually...

Due to the nature of what we are looking for our market is much smaller than typical. Some features are

-Metal hull, either steel or aluminum with no wood decking
-Pilothouse with dual helm stations
-55-65 feet

We made an offer the broker brought us a counter back, we countered again. Not to sure if we will get much closer, the amount we are apart is roughly equal to the brokers commission.

I am considering approaching the owner about dealing without a broker as we could both benefit from this. I have done this with real estate with good success in the past so don't see why it would not work here. Is there some sort of etiquette here??
Not done. Very simple.
BUT - the problem is not yours. You don't have a say in the matter as the seller is bound by contract to the broker, not you.
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Old 06-10-2018, 09:11   #17
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Re: Going around a broker

Had you made a deal with the owner before the broker showed up would be one thing. However the broker did show the boat and you did contact him. You could have put your foot down when he was rushing you! Brokers are notoriously slimy but cheating one who has done his job is more slimy!
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Old 06-10-2018, 09:16   #18
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Re: Going around a broker

I agree with all of you and I am so proud to be part of a community that has ethics. It seems nowadays too many think that it is not theft if you don't get caught.

Great answers sailors! You should be proud of your selves!
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Old 06-10-2018, 09:19   #19
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Re: Going around a broker

My friend and next door boat neighbor is selling his boat and it seems to check all your boxes.

Steel, 65', two steering stations. Look up "Iron Lady" on Yachtworld. I have lived next to this boat for 4 years and the owner has crossed every T and dotted every I and then gone looking for more T's and I's. Impeccable.

It is, however, listed with a broker.
Good luck in your search.
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Old 06-10-2018, 09:29   #20
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Re: Going around a broker

Be aware that in Fla the broker's commission is based by contract on the LISTING price, not the selling price. They are as bad as the real estate agent down there.

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Old 06-10-2018, 09:31   #21
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Re: Going around a broker

Unless you are privy to the terms of the seller-broker contract, you don't know what the issues might be. If it is like most brokerage contracts the broker will get their commission even if you negotiate directly with the seller. If it's a boat you care about and you think you are ready to make an offer, then write down the offer and present it. You are looking for a boat, not new drinking buddies. The brokers contract will protect him - actually if you read a typical listing contract there is more in it to protect the broker than the seller.. If the seller is smart they will tell you put the offer on the brokers forms.
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Old 06-10-2018, 09:32   #22
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Re: Going around a broker

So no incentive to get a great price for the client? Crazy
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Old 06-10-2018, 09:33   #23
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Re: Going around a broker

I'm not sure that Stainless is attempting to stiff the broker as much as trying to make a deal without the broker interfering. I have run into similar situations many times when I practiced law. Some attorneys are deal makers while others are deal breakers. Since it's not ethical for an attorney to deal directly with a party who is known to be represented by an attorney, in those situations I could not contact the party directly, But, if that party's atty was a "deal breaker" kind, I would request a meeting with the atty with all parties present so that the other party could hear from me directly. In Stainless's case, he can ethically deal directly with the owner and not even address the broker issue. In fact, as suggested, he should do nothing to interfere with the seller's contract with the broker. That's not his concern.
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Old 06-10-2018, 09:37   #24
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Re: Going around a broker

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Originally Posted by jewt View Post
Be aware that in Fla the broker's commission is based by contract on the LISTING price, not the selling price. They are as bad as the real estate agent down there.

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It was 30 years ago but when I was a broker in Ft Lauderdale commissions were always based on the selling price.

Perhaps that has changed but I'll wager contracts specifying commission based on the listing price are not universal. Even if that has become the norm, terms of a contract are negotiable. If I was listing a boat with a broker I would reject that part of the contract and make that a deal breaker if the broker didn't agree.
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Old 06-10-2018, 09:38   #25
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Re: Going around a broker

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So no incentive to get a great price for the client? Crazy
Commission is usually based on selling price, sometimes not including reductions for agreed repairs. So they are incentivized to sell high to some extent, but in reality closing deals is far more important to a brokers income than selling high.
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Old 06-10-2018, 09:39   #26
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Re: Going around a broker

Broker contracts of either boats or real estate make the seller liable to pay the commission if the contract doesn't have a special provision just for the purpose you stated.
The seller would also be responsible for arbitration and other legal fees.
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Old 06-10-2018, 09:45   #27
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Re: Going around a broker

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This is what I thought. Even though I have had good experiences with doing it with regard to real estate transactions (we know some cool re agents) I was unsure how the boat market handles it

That said in my dealings over the years the industries with low amounts of "ethics" or morals are always salesy types, insurance, etc. So I don't mind playing the same way they tend to which places finances and the amount of money in pocket before anything else...
Remind me never to do business together.

If does not matter how others behave, it only matters how I behave.

Make your final offer which nets the broker a five percent commission and be willing to walk away. If you do that the broker will likely cave and you can sleep knowing you drove a hard yet fair deal.

One other thought, if I’m dealing with someone who goes to “let’s cut them out” quickly my radar goes on full power.

If they are willing to screw the broker what else are they willing to do?

Hope ya get her and enjoy!
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Old 06-10-2018, 09:51   #28
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Re: Going around a broker

The seller will have to pay the broker's commission if you buy the boat. There is really no way around that. Even if the contract the seller has with the broker expires or is cancelled, it will have a clause requiring payment of commission for up to six months for any buyer who contacted the broker prior to the contract expiration.

However, if you haven't brought in a buyer's broker, then you might have some luck in getting the broker to put half of the commission back into the deal. He'd have to give that money up if you walked away and came back with a buyer's broker, right? So if he simply credits that co-broker commission back to the seller, you can make the deal work.
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Old 06-10-2018, 09:51   #29
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Re: Going around a broker

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......

Make your final offer which nets the broker a five percent commission and be willing to walk away. If you do that the broker will likely cave and you can sleep knowing you drove a hard yet fair deal.

.....!
The buyer's offer has no control on what the brokers commission will be. The buyer should offer what he wants to pay for the boat. The commission is between the seller and broker to negotiate.
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Old 06-10-2018, 09:51   #30
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Re: Going around a broker

Bottom line .... how did you find the boat?
Obviously via the brokers advertising and promotion.
That he was late, or you early matters little.
Make your offers thru the broker and step back.
He is the reason you have the opportunity to purchase the boat you desire.
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