French Selling broker says they do not allow buyers broker commision

[olaf hart]

Same deal in Oz, Buyers Brokers seem to be a US boat and real estate thing.

Don’t really understand why you need them, as long as the consumer is reasonably informed things go fine without them.

[boatman61]

I just go here..

https://yachts.apolloduck.co.uk/boat...cruising-yacht

and here..

https://www.boatshed.com/used-boats-for-sale/

[zeehag]

i havent used brokers, i deal with owner and i am the owner no wasted 10 percent or 3000 usd depending on selling price. brokers remind me too much of used car salesmen.
yes i have personally known each as friends and see no difference in selling style or mannerisms. ditto personality.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by boatman61

We do things differently over this side of the pond.. buyers brokers are pretty non existent.. that's an American weirdo thing.
More DIY here..

Honestly, I don't believe the majority of US sales involve a buyers broker.

I think it's a marketing ploy. They know if they can get you to sign up, they get a cut of whatever you buy and most people who sign up do eventually buy. But with modern online listings, I don't see where they add anything.

[tp12]

Ultimately it doesn't matter, surely. You set the price you want to pay and they either accept it, and deal with whatever split they need to, or not.

No?

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by tp12

Ultimately it doesn't matter, surely. You set the price you want to pay and they either accept it, and deal with whatever split they need to, or not.

No?

No, if you signed up with a buyer's broker and committed that they would receive a certain percentage of the sale price. Then the seller's broker refuses to split the commission, you are on the hook for whatever you signed with the buyer's broker.

[tp12]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

No, if you signed up with a buyer's broker and committed that they would receive a certain percentage of the sale price. Then the seller's broker refuses to split the commission, you are on the hook for whatever you signed with the buyer's broker.

Then surely he's made a meal of it by contacting the selling broker directly and not through his own buyers broker and making the buyers broker do the negotiation?

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by tp12

Then surely he's made a meal of it by contacting the selling broker directly and not through his own buyers broker and making the buyers broker do the negotiation?

What makes you think a French broker would want to split his commision..
Its more likely the boat will cost the buyer more to meet His brokers commision..
Lazy shopping is rarely cheap..

[mikedefieslife]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Lazy shopping is rarely cheap..

Quoted for truth.

I see no reason for a broker from another country operating within that country's legal system, and culture, to make any exceptions for things that are alien to the way they normally operate. It's not like there's a shortage of French or even European buyers of boats.

I suppose it's one of those things. You get used to the way something is done in your country, and are thrown to discover that the majority of world does something different. You have to adapt or walk away.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by tp12

Then surely he's made a meal of it by contacting the selling broker directly and not through his own buyers broker and making the buyers broker do the negotiation?

When you sign a contract, there are consequences. (if he didn't sign a contract and the buyers broker didn't bring the boat to his attention, he could just leave him out of it)

Though in all honesty, I expect a buyers broker will avoid showing any boat where getting his commission is going to be a problem...so I would expect, if he left it to the broker, he never would have seen this boat.

Honestly, I don't see any advantage to a buyers broker. Modern internet site get you access to pretty much all the advertised boats (and brokered boats are almost exclusively about advertising). If you are worried about the paperwork, maybe have them come on to help with the paperwork for a fixed fee of a couple hundred bucks...but certainly not thousands.

[CatNewBee]

It is tough enough to deal with seller brokers, especially from remote places.

Some ask for signing the contract and pay a deposite upfront based on the expose before ever stepped on deck or seen the vessel, with options to negotiate the price later after the survey and maybe also refuse the boat within 7 days after. I had refused some cats just because of the brokers procedures I found inappropriate. For me it is uncommon to even sign a binding contract for that amount of money before first seing the item. But that then narrows down the opportinities, especially overseas.

Sometimes using an experienced internationally operating buyers broker could be a good idea.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

It is tough enough to deal with seller brokers, especially from remote places.

Some ask for signing the contract and pay a deposite upfront based on the expose before ever stepped on deck or seen the vessel, with options to negotiate the price later after the survey and maybe also refuse the boat within 7 days after. I had refused some cats just because of the brokers procedures I found inappropriate. For me it is uncommon to even sign a binding contract for that amount of money before first seing the item. But that then narrows down the opportinities, especially overseas.

Sometimes using an experienced internationally operating buyers broker could be a good idea.

Buyers broker has the same incentive to get you to sign a contract because they know the odds of people backing out goes a lot lower if they sign a contract.

If you don't like the deal or methods, no reason to expect a buyers broker to fix it. More likely they will be looking at getting their commission check soon if the deal goes thru and thus will tell you that it's normal.

Of course internationally a buyers broker is likely not going to be able to pre-check the boat for you...at least with a local search, you might (big might) have them do a pre-check to see if it's worth following up on. Or maybe they personally know the other broker and can get the inside scoop on the boat. Overseas, they will see the same pictures you do and likely won't know the other broker.

[wolfgal]

although i have not dealt much with French brokers in my own boat search, my understanding of the way the french bakers do things is as you have described here, where there is no buyer broker involved and where a deposit of 10% is required.

my experience has been that, once you see the boat and make a verbal offer (and this offer is not refused by the seller), you then make a written offer to be able to make a sea trial. this may not be standard practice, but it is what i've encountered.

i'm not certain as to if you sign and make the 10% deposit before or after sea trial.

i assume that you are not in France, and am curious to know if you are looking for someone to go see the boat to make certain that its description (and images) in the advert reflect its condition.

Originally Posted by tanre

Hi all, novice here.



French selling broker is telling me the following:


"The fact is, in US, there are buyer broker & seller broker.
In France, the same broker do both.

If you have you buyer broker, that’s fine. But we will not split our broker fee. We do not work with other brokers for the sale of this boat.
Unless you pay your own broker"



Is there any truth to this?


Also, they seem to expect 10% for deposit but have read many times that this is no longer the norm. What say the group?

[CatNewBee]

... They know the industry and they know the competition and are permanently watching the market.

They can pre-select and filter the offers and have a better idea about the prices, have connections to charter companies knowing early what vessels would be phased out soon, also they may have better negotiation skills than you wanting the boat. Often they know the local pitfalls and regulations, taxes, fees, customs, and usances because they had deals in that country in the past. They may also organise a skilled surveyor they trust to pre-check the vessel. Some have connections to insurance companies to check the incidents history of the vessel.

10% is a lot of money, but they may help you save also a significant amount and headache if they do their work properly, by chosing the right time to buy at the right place.

It is a different approach, but it can be successful.

[tp12]

Originally Posted by boatman61

What makes you think a French broker would want to split his commision..
Its more likely the boat will cost the buyer more to meet His brokers commision..
Lazy shopping is rarely cheap..

I'm not thinking that he would or he wouldn't. My point was that the OP has cut his own broker out of the deal by contacting the seller's broker directly. Seems to me that if you're going to pay your own broker then you should let him do his job! Even if you find the seller's broker yourself you'd tell your own broker and let him to the contacting, negotiation etc etc ... Cutting him out and then having to pay him is only going to annoy everyone, I would have thought.