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Old 11-10-2020, 11:10   #1
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Freedom of Speech from Port to Port

Something people seem to forget to be careful about when sailing from port to port over nation's borders is many countries that people think have free speech, do not. So be careful.

A good example is Costa Rica. "Judge Vivian Obando said that Strecker’s various web postings about the sex tourism scene in Costa Rica have done “societal harm” and negatively affected the country’s commercial image." https://ticotimes.net/2016/11/16/cuba-dave-verdict The person merely gave facts about what was going on and did so while in the United States, but was arrested when visiting.

France, the yacht capital of the world with territories in the Caribbean and the South Pacific recently jailed someone for 3 years for writing a book, and convicted a philosopher for re-releasing a 128 year old book which is available wikisource. See Bridgett Bardot and remember you do not have the stature and money she has to get out of a jam due to a slip of the tongue. Banned speech in private conversation is also illegal, so if someone records you on a cell phone you can be imprisoned in St. Barts and Tahiti. Truth is NOT a defense.

Street preachers in Britain have been regularly taken away in handcuffs. Criticizing the King in Thailand is a serious offense, even if true.

You might think "I'm not a reporter, preacher, historian, or philosopher, so why should I be worried?" Most speech "crimes" are committed when drunk. Also, people in these countries when getting into an argument will bait the unsuspecting visitor in a port of call into saying something illegal. Since these laws are not enforced fairly, the person will insult the visiting boater because of his group membership, the person will then insult the other person's group. The local person knowing the law is not enforced when insulting the visitor's group will then call the police. If you say something on your boat, the boat might be confiscated.

There are limits on speech you likely never heard of, like in Kuwait, Germany, and many other countries where it is illegal to criticize any leader of any country of the world. In Germany this law is almost never enforced but came up when someone criticised Erdrogan in the Bohmermann affair. He was prosecuted but got off because he was famous and had money for lawyers, something someone living on a 30 foot 1990 Catalina probably does not have.

What prompted this post is someone on this forum said spreading hate should be illegal. What people do not understand is many consider saying something supportive of a major presidential candidate is "hate speech."

The point is when in a foreign country be careful what you say. You likely do not have knowledge of how things work. Also, did you write anything about the country you are sailing to on your blog? Is what you wrote on your blog legal in the territorial waters of the country you are passing through?

In case you are wondering how hate speech is often defined, it is saying something positive about a major presidential candidate:
Quote:
“Regrettably, team rider Quinn Simmons made statements online that we feel are divisive, incendiary, and detrimental to the team, professional cycling, its fans, and the positive future we hope to help create for the sport. https://www.outkick.com/american-cyc...porting-trump/
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Old 11-10-2020, 13:39   #2
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Re: Freedom of Speech from Port to Port

The same point can be made about all manner of laws and regulations. Countries make their own laws and when travelling internationally one needs to be very mindful of that reality. Similarly a visa holder won't have the same rights as a citizen.

Zamber I'm not sure why you've made the post; perhaps a warning, perhaps to encourage discussion. Possibly you may wish to elaborate?

In respect to freedom of speech I doubt any country has 100% freedom. And who is the subject of the statement? An individual, a corporation, media, local or national government?
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Old 17-10-2020, 07:48   #3
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Re: Freedom of Speech from Port to Port

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Originally Posted by grantmc View Post
Zamber I'm not sure why you've made the post; perhaps a warning, perhaps to encourage discussion. Possibly you may wish to elaborate?
I said the reason I made the post in the post as in "The point is when in a foreign country be careful what you say."

When in a place like China or Dubai visitors know to be careful what to say, and the speech laws are straightforward and it can be made clear to the cruiser before bringing a boat into a country. The problem is most people think countries like France and Greece have freedom of speech and on top of that the laws are very vague and unevenly enforced.

The truth is, the only reason these places the EU even have elections is because the US Army invaded and occupied the place. If it was up to them by themselves WWI, WW2, and the Cold War would of went the other way.

Do you think that most people sailing to Belize know that it is illegal to spread hate against the leader of the country? Yes, insulting the leader of Belize is really a hate crime. Read below, hatred is in bold.

For many on this forum their boat represents 95% of their assets. People need to understand that in a lot of these countries their boats can be at risk of seizure for speech crimes. Boat seizures are only rare because so few people travel in their own boats. This post is to warn people to be careful what they say on a blog or in private even in so-called free countries.

Quote:
Defaming the Queen (who remains Belizeís head of state) is a separate crime, punishable as a misdemeanor. Its scope includes ď[e]very person with intent to bring Her Majesty into hatred, ridicule or contempt, [who] publishes any defamatory or insulting matter, whether by writing, print, word of mouth or in any other manner concerning Her Majesty.Ē
https://cpj.org/reports/2016/03/central-america/
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Old 17-10-2020, 08:23   #4
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Re: Freedom of Speech from Port to Port

Nothing is really free in this world and freedom is relative.
I believe that even in the states, saying a certain wrong thing in a certain region can get you lynched, even freedom of speech is said to be protected.
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Old 17-10-2020, 08:39   #5
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Re: Freedom of Speech from Port to Port

Here's a tip. As a cruiser when you are a GUEST in another country there's simply no reason to be proclaiming your political views. You just come off as an ignorant, obnoxious American who's full of sh#t.

And I'm an American
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Old 17-10-2020, 08:45   #6
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Re: Freedom of Speech from Port to Port

Quote:
Originally Posted by zamber View Post
In case you are wondering how hate speech is often defined, it is saying something positive about a major presidential candidate:
Quote:
“Regrettably, team rider Quinn Simmons made statements online that we feel are divisive, incendiary, and detrimental to the team, professional cycling, its fans, and the positive future we hope to help create for the sport. https://www.outkick.com/american-cyc...porting-trump/
No, it wasn't because that was considered 'hate speech', it's because many sports organizations very zealously guard their image and good name. Team members usually must sign a pledge to not do or say anything that drags the organization or its sponsors into controversy, political or otherwise.

See also Colin Kaepernick.

The flip side of freedom is responsibility. Everyone forgets that.

I think most international cruisers recognize that travel is a privilege, and that they are guests in the countries they visit, and they conduct themselves accordingly. Getting drunk and arguing with the hosts is never good behaviour.

[what Carl said]
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Old 30-10-2020, 11:35   #7
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Re: Freedom of Speech from Port to Port

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Originally Posted by Wckoek View Post
Nothing is really free in this world and freedom is relative.
I believe that even in the states, saying a certain wrong thing in a certain region can get you lynched, even freedom of speech is said to be protected.
This is not true. You can say what ever you want, where ever you want. You can walk right up to a cop and call them any name under the sun, you can bash the president with signs in your front yard, 100% okay. Now you may get punched in the mouth a time or two if you aren't careful about your company, but that would be an illegal for the pucher.
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Old 30-10-2020, 13:25   #8
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Re: Freedom of Speech from Port to Port

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Originally Posted by Bstrang6 View Post
This is not true. You can say what ever you want, where ever you want. You can walk right up to a cop and call them any name under the sun, you can bash the president with signs in your front yard, 100% okay. Now you may get punched in the mouth a time or two if you aren't careful about your company, but that would be an illegal for the pucher.
Also not true. For instance you cannot verbally threaten that cop, or the president. Even though they are just words. You cannot be in an airport and yell bomb!
There are restrictions on all freedoms. Usually when they infringe on the freedom of others. Many focus more on their own rights and forget about everyone elses.
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Old 30-10-2020, 13:30   #9
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Re: Freedom of Speech from Port to Port

There's a reason why some old idioms are still relevant.

"Don't rock the boat" immediately comes to mind ;-)
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Old 30-10-2020, 15:17   #10
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Re: Freedom of Speech from Port to Port

When youíre in a foreign country there are at least two rules:
1. Donít say anything that you wouldnít paint on a sandwich board and walk around town.
2. Donít ever say something in English, assuming that they wonít understand you.
3. "A closed mouth catches no flies."
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Old 30-10-2020, 15:36   #11
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Re: Freedom of Speech from Port to Port

I think it is generally something very rude to disembark in a port, especially a foreign one, and start testing the limits of the freedom of speech.


I suggest people who think otherwise sail to Libya or Israel and try there. Offend a prophet for starters. See where this gets you.


Freedom of speech is a fine notion to read about in Wikipedia, but other than there, basically not found in its pure form in nature. Just like trade winds.



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Old 31-10-2020, 08:55   #12
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Re: Freedom of Speech from Port to Port

going out without a mask on will get you arrested and fined in a lot of places these days.

watch out for hand signs as well a simple thumbs up or making a circle with the thumb and fore finger in some places like greece or turkey have obscene meanings and could get you beaten up or stabbed
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Old 31-10-2020, 16:52   #13
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Re: Freedom of Speech from Port to Port

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlF View Post
Here's a tip. As a cruiser when you are a GUEST in another country there's simply no reason to be proclaiming your political views. You just come off as an ignorant, obnoxious American who's full of sh#t.

And I'm an American
Isn't that the truth!
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Old 15-11-2020, 06:44   #14
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Freedom of Speech from Port to Port

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Originally Posted by chris mac View Post
Also not true. For instance you cannot verbally threaten that cop, or the president. Even though they are just words. You cannot be in an airport and yell bomb!
There are restrictions on all freedoms. Usually when they infringe on the freedom of others. Many focus more on their own rights and forget about everyone elses.


Actually you can... you can say/do anything you want to do as and conversely you donít have to say/do anything you donít want to.
You always have a choice but you must accept the consequences of your actions.

If a robber threatens you at gun point and says give me your wallet or your life you have a choice.
You might not like the choice but you always have a choice.

You can choose to walk up to any police officer in any country and call them whatever you want. You can yell bomb in an airport that is your decision (in fact in many scenarios it will be the correct thing to do).
You just have to be comfortable with the consequences.

Moral high ground and whatís ultimately right does not always follow mans laws and often is in direct contradiction.
Just following the law or not doing something because it is illegal is a dangerous attitude to always have and if you ask US president Thomas Jefferson itís down right unpatriotic.

With an attitude like that we would never have the United States in the first place, thousands of holocaust victims wouldnít have been smuggled to safety, the Underground Railroad wouldnít have existed, if it wasnít for civil disobedience African Americans and women wouldnít have gotten the right to vote in the USA, it would still be legal to force children to work in factories or coal mines... the list goes on...

If a person decides to go to another country and post videos about the happenings in those countries that is their free will and their choice the same free will and choice that people in that other country can exercise to either prosecute, solve the issue or do nothing.
When you are overseas you are a guest of that country and subject to their rules and laws.

I think the OP is for sure an American who thinks his **** doesnít stink and seems to have at best a vague grasp of history and geopolitical issues. Potential Trump supporter Iíd bet .... oh and I am an American if that must be labeled.

Oh and Brigette Bardot for anyone not paying attention was fined for inciting Hate speech against gays, Muslims, immigrants in general, and the jobless.
While freedom of speech is an important value is it more important than protecting the lives of citizens? By this same line of thought you could argue Adolf Hitler was only exercising freedom of speech and wasnít guilty of any war crime as he actually never personally killed anyone he only incited hatred and violence through his speech.
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Old 15-11-2020, 06:51   #15
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Freedom of Speech from Port to Port

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Originally Posted by zamber View Post



The truth is, the only reason these places the EU even have elections is because the US Army invaded and occupied the place. If it was up to them by themselves WWI, WW2, and the Cold War would of went the other way.






What???
Just going to point out that during WW1 neither women nor African Americans could vote. In WW2 African Americans could die for their country but not vote and same for about half of the Cold War... your point here is failing to stand up to actual historical facts..

Letís not even get into the factual talks about if the US really won the war against Nazi Germany. One could easily argue that Russia played a much bigger role but Americans for some reason canít give Russia any credit even when its due.
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