Fourth Mode in Sailing

[dickfred]

I read a sailing post in another forum that referred to the "fourth mode." I was unable to determine what that meant.

Can anyone explain?

[chris95040]

Lol

You should checkout this site, it’s kind of a ‘greatest hits album’ for the internet:

www.google.com


But to answer your immediate question, from my 5 seconds of research, it has to do with a perhaps naive sailor with unconventional names for things who got in the crosshairs of the sailing anarchy forum.

Thanks for reminding me why data-driven arguments are pointless for politicians though. Amazing that someone can stumble onto something like ‘the 4th mode’ but can’t google their way out of it.

[dickfred]

Gee Whiz! What a tip! Actually, I did that search and it did not yield what you seem to be reporting. Mostly musical references, nothing in this forum nor the wonderful
Wikipedia. And I did see the only non musical reference in the Sailing Anarchy Forum. Maybe like the fourth wall in theatre - a no go zone.

[skipmac]

Well I have never heard of this myself so asked Mr Google which lead me to sailing anarchy as well. After wading through several sarcastic and pointless posts I finally got to this.


The story, as I recall.



Once upon a time there was a man who sailed (if that's the right word) a MacGregor 26. We'll call him Frank. He loved his boat. He loved his boat more than anybody else has ever loved a boat. To prove his love, and to show the world that his boat was the absolute best sort of boat ever, ever, ever created, he created a website. His website expounded on his many views about sailing, to great length.



Like many people who love boats and sailing, Frank didn't only sail, but he also loved to read books about sailing. One of the books he read was Frank Bethwaite's High Performance Sailing. In this tome, Frank B talks about various modes of sailing - displacement mode, forced mode, planing mode and what he calls the 4th mode (basically, IIRC, in a low rocker/immersed transom skiff type boat, getting the crew onto the foredeck to reduce wetted surface area in ultra light winds). Frank seized on the 4th mode with glee.



The denizens of a particularly rowdy sailing forum discovered Frank's website, and verily, they were filled with glee. They found that Frank's particular views did not coincide with their views of sailing, and so there was much mirth at the beliefs espoused on Frank's site. A thread (more of a rope, actually, by the end) was started about his site, with many posts about Frank's very particular point of view.



And then Frank turned up on the thread. Many tried to make him see the error of his ways, but whilst the arguments ranged long and loud, Frank never posted anything indicating that he was persuaded that his views were anything but right. This drove many to distraction. Eventually, many contributors to the thread started to delete their posts, which was the only thing that finally resulted in silencing Frank. IIRC, he was eventually banned. Along the way, he had actually visited Bob Perry. Bob was unconvinced that having a centreboard that's an appalling fit in the slot makes it a gybing board.



Here endeth the story.



Except: He's still out there.

[dickfred]

I saw that MacGregor 26 reference and Web page somewhere in my search, but did not follow it far enough. Thank You! for doing so and your post that clarifies.

[Elvin]

Originally Posted by chris95040

Lol

You should checkout this site, it’s kind of a ‘greatest hits album’ for the internet:

www.google.com


But to answer your immediate question, from my 5 seconds of research, it has to do with a perhaps naive sailor with unconventional names for things who got in the crosshairs of the sailing anarchy forum.

Thanks for reminding me why data-driven arguments are pointless for politicians though. Amazing that someone can stumble onto something like ‘the 4th mode’ but can’t google their way out of it.

Absolutely! Why would any intelligent person want to waste time in conversation with common sailboat cruisers when they have instant access to the wisdom and compassion of a dear friend like Sundar Pichai.

[ArmyDaveNY]

I found this on Eskimo

https://www.eskimo.com/~mighetto/mur...s/archives/681

It talks about planing versus displacement. There are also very brief discussions of the forced mode and the now infamous fourth mode.

Edit: Actually, the only mention of the forth mode can be found in these two sentences: There is also no reason to learn about 4th mode on a displacement sail boat. Displacement sailboats are too heavy to make this mode of sailing, which involves moving weight forward.

The author also discusses a little about why he feels the U.S. is not competitive in sailing.

[cal40john]

Originally Posted by chris95040

Lol

You should checkout this site, it’s kind of a ‘greatest hits album’ for the internet:

Google


But to answer your immediate question, from my 5 seconds of research, it has to do with a perhaps naive sailor with unconventional names for things who got in the crosshairs of the sailing anarchy forum.

Thanks for reminding me why data-driven arguments are pointless for politicians though. Amazing that someone can stumble onto something like ‘the 4th mode’ but can’t google their way out of it.

Amazingly bad timing. You've found a topic that seems to almost not exist on the web. The major link people are finding is to someone who has an incredible lack of understanding of physics and sailing and has been seriously mocked on SA. I see he has now removed all the pages that explained how a Macgregor 26 sails better than anything else and how his version of physics explains all.

As explained earlier Bethwaithe's book goes into detail how a modern skiff like a 49er uses 4th mode. A 49er is designed to be sailed planing. Not a bad idea for a boat that can plane in 7 - 8 knots, upwind and down. When the wind goes light enough to not plane the wide flat back end of the boat is very draggy and slow.

A link I found is a preview to Bethewaithe's follow on book,
Figure 10.9g in the link shows how trimming the bow down 100 mm and heeling the boat, getting the big fat end mostly out with just one edge of the back half of the boat in reduces drag.

https://books.google.com/books?id=iQ...ailing&f=false