Derelicts and Live Aboard Hulks

[rognvald]

Some interesting information may be found concerning the problem in Florida with "derelict" and "live aboard hulks." It is this very issue that is creating the negativity among local residents and government to allow anchoring in the Florida waterways and is driving legislation to serious curtail the freedom to anchor. This information is available on the Cruisers Net/Claiborne Young at the following address: cruisersnet.net/great-info-on-derelicets-and-live-aboard-hul...

[tager]

There's always a movement afoot to curtail freedom.

We live in a medieval fiefdom, people don't like liveaboards because they don't pay tribute to the king. Of course people complain about the way their vessels look, or their unkempt appearance, etc.

This is what free people look like. Not rat-racers.

[Target9000]

Originally Posted by tager

There's always a movement afoot to curtail freedom.

We live in a medieval fiefdom, people don't like liveaboards because they don't pay tribute to the king. Of course people complain about the way their vessels look, or their unkempt appearance, etc.

This is what free people look like. Not rat-racers.

So easy to try to pull it down into those simplistic philosophical black and white views. Freedom vs Evil Controlling Mega Government Kings.

In reality though, where things are not philosophical, people don't like to live next door to drunken drug users that dump buckets of poop in their water. Doesn't have much to do with their tax filing. Has to do with the fact that if they sink, the city has to clean it up and if they don't sink, they pollute all around them (mentally and physically).

No one likes to live next to "free people".

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by tager

There's always a movement afoot to curtail freedom.

We live in a medieval fiefdom, people don't like liveaboards because they don't pay tribute to the king. Of course people complain about the way their vessels look, or their unkempt appearance, etc.

This is what free people look like. Not rat-racers.

Are you sayng that if you are "free" you and your boat looks like crap?

[landsend]

He's right about the fiefdom except it's not medieval.

[tager]

Fish poop in water all day long, I wouldn't worry too much about it.

I would worry about them acting inappropriate with regard to drugs and alcohol.

That being said, I find that there are more drunk, drugged, inappropriate people at the country club than in my anchorage. I spend hours at both every day.

So it really does come down to whether or not they pay tribute, doesn't it?

You just don't like the way they look, huh?

A drunk guy with golf clubs wearing a collared shirt will receive better treatment than a drunk guy wearing dirty clothes rowing a beat up dinghy every time.

I live aboard in an anchorage, and I don't drink or do drugs, but I don't pay rent either. I keep my boat looking clean and well maintained, and I hear all the gossip about us liveaboards. That we are drug users, that we have keggers, that we cook meth etc.

Turns out none of it is true....

So, unless I had some experience to back up your assertion that they are somehow bad neighbors, I would hold my tongue.

Turns out that you are more likely to have a bad experience with the people at the country club, in my experience.

[Suzybro]

Why is it, that liveaboards are always associated with derelict boats and people that use the water as their own personal lavatory? My husband and I have always dreamed of living aboard. We recently purchased a fantastic vessel that is in great condition. Since then, have put a ton of money into it for satellite systems, new bottom job, new dinghy, custom woodwork, etc. Our marina fess are ridiculous. We have worked hard, saved our money and are very excited to begin this new chapter of our lives. So glad we have the opportunity to do this. Guess we will have to spend lots more money docking at marinas since "free" anchorages seem to be disappearing because of irresponsible people. Sad!

[Target9000]

Originally Posted by tager

So it really does come down to whether or not they pay tribute, doesn't it?

Believe what you have to man. I told you the truth already.

Originally Posted by tager

Turns out that you are more likely to have a bad experience with the people at
the country club, in my experience.

Don't care about other clubs. Two wrongs don't make a right. Aspire to the greatest common factor instead of being pleased that you aren't the lowest common denominator.

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by rognvald

Some interesting information may be found concerning the problem in Florida with "derelict" and "live aboard hulks." It is this very issue that is creating the negativity among local residents and government to allow anchoring in the Florida waterways and is driving legislation to serious curtail the freedom to anchor. This information is available on the Cruisers Net/Claiborne Young at the following address: cruisersnet.net/great-info-on-derelicets-and-live-aboard-hul...

It's the climate that makes this an option for otherwise homeless people. Last winter I only ran my heater three nights. I rarely use my AC, and if I were anchored out, would probably use it less, esp. if I had a wind scoop.

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by tager

There's always a movement afoot to curtail freedom.

We live in a medieval fiefdom, people don't like liveaboards because they don't pay tribute to the king. Of course people complain about the way their vessels look, or their unkempt appearance, etc.

This is what free people look like. Not rat-racers.

I have heard one couple complain about that, but what bothers *me* is things like knowing that a derelict live-aboard has abused his dog through neglect and that his poop goes into the water close to where small children swim.

Those are very real issues and they relate to *my* right -- to live in a clean world where pets are taken care of properly.

[Captmorpheus]

Originally Posted by Suzybro

Why is it, that liveaboards ...... Guess we will have to spend lots more money docking at marinas since "free" anchorages seem to be disappearing because of irresponsible people. Sad!

Don't you mean that "free" anchorages are disappearing because of overzealous control freaks and their complete disregard for personal freedoms that have existed for thousands of years??? Perhaps if the Native Americans had laws and deeds the diseased, greedy and savage Europeans would have not been allowed to drop anchor and come ashore over 500 years ago.

Seems like some want free anchorages for themselves but not for others that they deem undesirable.

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by tager

Fish poop in water all day long, I wouldn't worry too much about it.

I would worry about them acting inappropriate with regard to drugs and alcohol.

That being said, I find that there are more drunk, drugged, inappropriate people at the country club than in my anchorage. I spend hours at both every day.

So it really does come down to whether or not they pay tribute, doesn't it?

You just don't like the way they look, huh?

A drunk guy with golf clubs wearing a collared shirt will receive better treatment than a drunk guy wearing dirty clothes rowing a beat up dinghy every time.

I live aboard in an anchorage, and I don't drink or do drugs, but I don't pay rent either. I keep my boat looking clean and well maintained, and I hear all the gossip about us liveaboards. That we are drug users, that we have keggers, that we cook meth etc.

Turns out none of it is true....

So, unless I had some experience to back up your assertion that they are somehow bad neighbors, I would hold my tongue.

Turns out that you are more likely to have a bad experience with the people at the country club, in my experience.

Fish poop contains nothing I'm aware of that will make humans sick. We have sewage systems for a very good reason. Once sewage systems became common, life expectancy soared and child deaths plummeted.

[tager]

The elephant in the room regarding shitting in the water: Combined Sewage Overflows.

They go on all winter in Seattle. All winter long, untreated sewage is pumping straight into Puget Sound, Lake Union, Lake Washington, the ship canal, etc.

Also, there are thousands of waterfront homes in my part of the country with "grandfathered in" waste treatment systems that pump directly to the water.

I don't understand why people hate homeless people so much. After all, if you ended up homeless, would that make you less of a person?

If someone chooses to live on a boat, that doesn't make them subhuman. Just because you don't like the way their boat looks, does not mean that you can persecute them.

The real problem is that liveaboards don't pay mortgages and taxes, so people feel cheated when they realize that some dude paying $0 to live on a boat is having the same experience that they are, paying millions to live on the waterfront. A couple phone calls happen, next thing you know, the liveaboards are getting harassed by a group of thugs called the police.

[sailorboy1]

This discussion already has gone down the hole because people are throwing around the "assume" word.

I didn't see in the beginning anyone saying people assume liveaboards are dirty boat derelict people. What I read it as is that dirty derelict liveaboards are responsible for the push toward anchoring laws.

The problem isn't about all liveaboard anchorers. It's just that "all" are getting caught in the squeeze about the dirty derelict ones.

[Target9000]

Don,

It is apparently incompatible with tager's life experience to believe that someone might be capable of differentiating a good and bad neighbor. Jealous is clearly the main factor motivating anchoring laws. Has nothing to do with boaters except that they don't have to pay to see the same water that land owners do.