Derelicts and Live Aboard Hulks

[s/vfootloose]

ReadOz - Read - Southwinds Magazine - August 2012 This is a story in Southwinds mag about this probem in Ga.

[tager]

Let's not forget that the "derelict people" have more in common with 99% of us than the suits who would soon see them swept under a carpet.

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by forsailbyowner

I get lumped into this homeless group often. Ive lived aboard 8 yrs now mostly on the hook. SometimesI get some growth on the waterline. Sometimes(now) there are rust streaks down the side of my boat. Ive stayed at one time or another at the boat ghettos around tampa bay. The people who I know are glad to see me come and sad when I leave.This includes the people that run the marinas where I pump out fand fill up mytans. They see me weekly and many now me by name. I work for a living doing canvas for much less than people pay at land based shops.I think the anger comes from those people who trade theyre whole lives for the box they call home. I drive a bicycle when I go to the store. I have 1 regular recurring bill that is my phone. My power comes from the wind and sun. Call mea bum or whatever you feel. I feel sorry for you. If you want to spend your time(the only thing any of us really have) paying for your box, in the last minutes of your life what will you have? Ill have the satisaction of knowing that I had time to enjoy the outdoors and to examine my existance on a day by day basis. Not waiting for the weekend and my weekly day of freedom.Be mad but you should be mad at yourself not me. I raised two kids, bought and sold a house, ran a profitable business. NowIm a happybum living on the hook, eating good, exercising and have good friends in many ports. Think Ill go merditate or a while.

I'm sorry you are lumped in as homeless. Obviously you're not if you are pumping out and running a small business to get by. Over the years, I have lived aboard and getting ready to do it again. I'm almost finished the refit and with a new sail cover and decent maintenance done, she look pretty good for an old girl. The harbor I have chosen was suggested to me here on the forum. Wood docks, inadequate power but the place is clean, well run and other liveaboards. I take pride in my appearance and actions. I try to treat everyone with courtesy and respect. If I don't get it back, I keep to myself in regards to them.
I also have a few of those land boxes you describe. Yes, I did work hard for them. But tell me...what is the difference in a land dweller calling someone a homeless person and a liveaboard accusing someone of owning and paying for a box the last minutes of their life. Are not both views judgmental?

[callmecrazy]

Originally Posted by tager

Let's not forget that the "derelict people" have more in common with 99% of us than the suits who would soon see them swept under a carpet.

Surely you mean 99% of Americans, not 99% of cruisersforum members

[sailorchic34]

Originally Posted by callmecrazy

These people are already in place and already being paid for their time in a day. The materials they use are already paid for, and the "extra" money is already budgeted to this specific resource for this specific reason....It's not a matter of extra cost, it's just a matter of allocating time, and actually spending the money on what it was meant for.

I expect some of the folk, officers, clerks, managers, etc are funded by the various grants, etc. So no grants, then let a few people go. Happens in every city and town everywhere.

Plus the average cost gets skewed by the $100k removal of barges, shrimp boats etc. In Florida a lot of the abandoned boats are aground, so its a bit more costly. They do the letter writing in the hopes that the boat owner takes care of the problem...

Don't forget the dump charges, yard insurance, etc. It all adds to the cost..

The number I found elsewhere showed the cost to dispose of a 30 foot boat was about $3000. Another source listed $8000 average, so its all a guess. But lots O legwork has to happen before the boat is hauled and chopped up..

[sailorchic34]

Originally Posted by callmecrazy

Surely you mean 99% of Americans, not 99% of cruisersforum members

LOL, Yes many of the CF members are in the 1 percent.

[Coops]

Originally Posted by tager

Let's not forget that the "derelict people" have more in common with 99% of us than the suits who would soon see them swept under a carpet.

Let's not forget that is a statement of opinion, not fact.

Coops.

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by Ex-Calif

The people of Richardson Bay also have rockstar policemen, say in comparision to Gulfport - must be something to do with tax rates.

We've chartered out of Sausolito a couple of times now. My brother has a real POS ford escort he lets me drive when I visit. One night I was returning to the boat about 8-9pm (after dark anyway) and sure enough robocop spun a u-turn and pulled me over basically right in front of the marina entrance.

Thos car is basically a moving violation - one low beam headlight out, dodgy tailight, smashed external rear view, etc.

The cop shone his light in the car. - I gave him a Singapore Driving license. His line of questioning was to figure out if I was a community threat. When I explained I was a yachtie on charter he gave a knowing grin, told me all the violations he could write up but basically sent me on my way. Most yachties look homeless when in boat mode. Especially me.

Was I violating some laws - yes
Should I have been cited - yes
Was I glad the cop had discretion in these matters - yes
If the next guy got cited would that be fair - no

Should I have got all shirtie about the invasion of my right to live free and drive a crappy car. No - that cop had a duty to find out who I was. He's on night patrol. I'd hate to have to approach a POS ford escort with a dodgy taillight at night. Hats of to these folks.

He now knew who I was, if I was up to no good he knew that I knew that he knew who I was. I call that a good traffic stop.

Anyway - ya can't judge a book by its cover...

At least you seem a little ashamed of breaking the law like you did.

You said that right?

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by callmecrazy

Hit the nail on the head


I think it should be noted that Florida has more derelict boats than any other state (by numbers in the thousands vs. numbers in the hundreds). Although, I haven't seen any numbers from California... I would assume it's pretty high, but not quite FL numbers due to the lack of available anchorages.

People living on a derelict boats are not homeless, they just have crappy homes. Not unlike people living in the ghetto down the road from you.
Do we force them to give up their homes and/or move 'elsewhere'?

Creating new laws to get rid of the boat ghettos is absolutely ridiculous when you consider that most of these boats are already violating an already existing law (or several laws).

The law enforcement can't do it all by themselves. Just like they can't control drug dealing in the real ghettos.

It is, and always has been, up to the LOCAL COMMUNITY, to take their own actions regarding 'bad neighbors'. Either by way of creating awareness and education, or by taking proper legal steps to encourage/push the local law enforcement into action.
It's been done a thousand times across america in bad neighborhoods where drug dealers, users, and homeless people thrive. It's done by the good people that live in the same neighborhood. Its NOT done by the rich people in the gated community 3 streets over. It's not done by new legislation, since the laws already exist. It's done by grassroots community action.

FL already has laws in place regarding derelict and unseaworthy vessels (google it). You can't sit back and wait for the police to do their job, YOU have to do something about it yourself, even if that means convincing the police to do their job.

Sorry, but the people who live in the "ghettoes" I'm familar with don't crap in their yards, and if they abuse their animals, they either lose them, or in extreme cases, are arrested. If their home is vermin infested the Board of Health steps in (I know this for a fact from experiences as a teacher). In fact the assumption that poor people do such things is kind of distasteful to me as I grew up poor, but we never did any of the things Cap'n Jay has let happen to his home.

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by Don Lucas

You know, this thread keeps going down empty rabbit holes. It isn't about rich, crime, poop, freedom, regulations, etc. It's about dirty derelict abandoned boats.

So does anyone have any ideas to address this?

PS - I don't believe input from SE Asia by someone making connections to the topic of "bombing little brown people" is very useful addressing the topic. So there I bit you!

For me it IS about poop -- or, at least, that's one of the large issues. What do I mean?

I've been spending several weeks helping a friend save a boat from the chainsaw. We have it just about safe to move to an anchorage, and will do that probably on Thursday.

It's hot work and boy would a swim feel good -- but surrounded by boats where people may or may not manage their body wastes appropriate, I'm not jumping in for a swim.

[callmecrazy]

Originally Posted by Rakuflames

Sorry, but the people who live in the "ghettoes" I'm familar with don't crap in their yards, and if they abuse their animals, they either lose them, or in extreme cases, are arrested. If their home is vermin infested the Board of Health steps in (I know this for a fact from experiences as a teacher). In fact the assumption that poor people do such things is kind of distasteful to me as I grew up poor, but we never did any of the things Cap'n Jay has let happen to his home.

What?

I don't think my statement was in any way related to capt' jays situation. Other than the fact that he's part of the problem... And what assumptions are you referring to? I think you may be misunderstanding my sentiment. I'm sorry, but I thought it was obvious that the term "ghetto" was a broad generalization. There are many different types of bad neighborhoods. Thousands.... But the thing that holds true for all of them is that community outreach is the only solution to their individual problems.

The two main types of "ghettos" I'm familiar with. And I'm talking about places I've lived... On one side you have neighborhoods that are indeed completely full of trash, feces among it all, animals are indeed abused on a daily basis, and the only time anyone is arrested is when they commit murder or they sell drugs to a cop. (note: the cops frequent these places, but don't make any arrests, for anything, until they run sting ops on the drug dealers once or twice a year. And the murder conviction rate is actually very low). I've never seen a cop try to arrest an animal abuser, or a spousal abuser, a child abuser, a drug user, a lawn crapper, or a homeless person, EVER, in any of these neighborhoods. The board of health wouldn't even consider going in unless the city had plans to demolish the whole neighborhood (which does happen occasionally).

The other bad neighborhoods I've lived in, are ones that could easily go that route, but that path is thwarted by individuals who speak out, form groups, and take action against their neighbors. When these people stand up for themselves, the other good neighbors, the city, and law enforcement starts to listen... After a while (in some cases, a very long while), the cops actually start to crack down on the drug dealing, animal abuse, physical abuse, etc.. until finally the entire neighborhood becomes a minor police state. That police state eventually lulls after the worst has gone, and the neighborhood reclaims it's rightful status as a halfway-decent, low-income, neighborhood.

There's a very clear answer to any community problem, and that is community action. waiting for the cops, or the government, to take care of problems for you will never work. But there are plenty of laws and legal resources in existence for a community to form around.

[Nemo55]

I am totally down with that, P.S. is there any sort of device which can measure stray electrical current in marina's,,,cos i'd be scared of jumping in with my Implant.

Originally Posted by Rakuflames

For me it IS about poop -- or, at least, that's one of the large issues. What do I mean?

I've been spending several weeks helping a friend save a boat from the chainsaw. We have it just about safe to move to an anchorage, and will do that probably on Thursday.

It's hot work and boy would a swim feel good -- but surrounded by boats where people may or may not manage their body wastes appropriate, I'm not jumping in for a swim.

[bobconnie]

Darn we have 100s of derelict boats up and down the bayous here in south LA!but no body lives on em ! LOL they live ashore and have the sunken junk in the bayou in front or behind there shore house ! and maybe even one that floats!! every couple of years the Parrish(county to some of ya) comes along and removes them !! but only if someone complaines!! I don't know the cost of this removal but I would gladly pay a little more taxs to see them all removed ! as they are a blight to the eyes and to the invirenment! but thats just my 2 cents others seem to think that the left over diesel and oils don't make much of a difference to the Bayou !! but then some of em still have inside toilets that go into the Bayou!! so I guess education is the only answer to this problem !! sorry don't mean to rant but sometimes it's impossible not to !! LOL

[callmecrazy]

Originally Posted by bobconnie

Darn we have 100s of derelict boats up and down the bayous here in south LA!but no body lives on em ! LOL they live ashore and have the sunken junk in the bayou in front or behind there shore house ! and maybe even one that floats!! every couple of years the Parrish(county to some of ya) comes along and removes them !! but only if someone complaines!! I don't know the cost of this removal but I would gladly pay a little more taxs to see them all removed ! as they are a blight to the eyes and to the invirenment! but thats just my 2 cents others seem to think that the left over diesel and oils don't make much of a difference to the Bayou !! but then some of em still have inside toilets that go into the Bayou!! so I guess education is the only answer to this problem !! sorry don't mean to rant but sometimes it's impossible not to !! LOL

I think this whole thread is one big rant, might as well join the club

I don't think the leftover oils are gonna make a big difference down there... Furthest south I got in LA was Buras for a while and the air was saturated with petro chemicals. And that was before the spill. Hopefully you're still in clear country, but I'm sure it's not far enough from all the action

[s/vfootloose]

I posted earlier the results of allowing gov't.to solve the problem in Ga. We are heading in for the same in Fl. If we allow state and local gov't and waterfront property owners to solve the problem they will solve the problem by amputating the hand because of a splinter in a finger. It's crude but effective. It's also a disservice to local and visiting boaters both sail and power. Local boaters dont have the political clout to have much weight in avoiding this. The only way of avoiding this is for boaters to work together and self-police ourselves. We need to form groups of people with boating interests locally,regionly,and statewide. This needs to include indivdual boaters, boat clubs, yacht clubs, marine industry businesses, Boat US and form alliances with the coast guard, grouper troopers, and the local marine police. We have waterway clean up days each year and hundreds of people show up to clean tons of crap that have been thrown in the waters. If we as boaters did the same thing a few times a year regarding derelict boats etc. reporting them to the proper law enforcement agencies and then making them public to create an urgency with law enforcement to apply current laws in a timely manner maybe we could avoid more severe laws that affect all of us. It would make us all stronger politicaly if we worked as a group with common interests.