Crappy news today, Florida Keys Pumpout stops Jan 31

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

The whole Government will take care of me thing has gotten way out of hand (in my opinion)

That is a valid point but in this case it is not a matter of the government taking care of the guy wanting a free pump out, but protecting the rest of us by making it less likely that some cheap bum will be dumping crap where we are boating/swimming/fishing.

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by fstbttms

We are still the wealthiest nation that has ever existed. Money isn't tight, it's being spent on the wrong things.

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Read some of Carl Hiaasen's novels. You'd swear he was on drugs, but he's a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist who's simply lived in Florida long enough to really know it: A very odd place, compared to the continental US.

There is a whole genre of "Florida literature" pretty much like you described. Hiaasen, Dorsey, etc. When I first stumbled upon it I instantly could relate to its characters as at that point I was visiting friends there for 10-12 years prior. One does not need to be a creative writer, just jot down the news clips from local papers.

[Tellie]

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

There is a whole genre of "Florida literature" pretty much like you described. Hiaasen, Dorsey, etc. When I first stumbled upon it I instantly could relate to its characters as at that point I was visiting friends there for 10-12 years prior. One does not need to be a creative writer, just jot down the news clips from local papers.

Of course living in Florida all my life I've seen a lot of what is being described, a lot of which makes for great comedy. But then I also noticed the big change became most notable when the huge migrating influx from the north east occurred.

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by Tellie

Of course living in Florida all my life I've seen a lot of what is being described, a lot of which makes for great comedy. But then I also noticed the big change became most notable when the huge influx from the north east occurred.

Of course. Don't they say that for many "characters" Florida is the end of the road, and KW is the end of the end road?

[Dulcesuenos]

The funding will continue and the state will continue to spend the money that could have been used to provide a service that indeed keeps our waters slightly cleaner. The money will be offered to provide pump stations at live aboard marinas instead. All well and good whenever that happens. Any how thats what is said, if the offer of free pumps happen, great. Until then Jan 31 2015 the boats stop. I doubt private individuals will try to operate the pump out boats even charging. How will this impact large mooring fields like Boot key or key west? We invested in a composter, and love it, I also like to swim in the water and not worry about blind mullets or brown trout swimming into me. I am not naive to think that the people who dump their waste into the water prior to free pump took advantage of the service anyways, their habits don't change, and that is sad.

Sent from my LG-LS980 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[rognvald]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Explain? Sure. Flori-DUH (as several of the larger newspapers there refer to it) is not known for rational voting or rational voters. It is not known for spending generously OR wisely, or investing in the quality of life.


For instance, this year Florida came in at FIRST PLACE. Ah, in deaths by drowning while in a car. Something like 50 in the last five years, versus 18 for #2 (Texas) and around 8-9 for each of the next three top runners.


Why do Floridians drown in their cars? Uh, something about the cheap habit of constructing drainage canals alongside roads and highways, where an older population often just slips off the road, inverts in the canal, and drowns.


About 2-3 years ago they also noticed that after spending something like $12m on putting guardrails on the turnpikes, the number of drownings in those areas decreased. (Remember, the FAA puts about a $3.2m value on one American life.)


Wow, yathink? Put guardrails next to highways and canals, and fewer people will drown there?


This year, the problem seems to be that the lead supplier of guardrails changed their design without telling anyone, and folks (cars) are getting impaled instead of sliding along the guardrails.


And a formal statewide investigation of the last 2000 "deaths by police" concluded that in all cases, the cops were totally correct in shooting the civilians. Totally correct. No mistakes. 2000 deaths and never one mistake. You'd have to read up on the many reports of police behavior in Florida to see how extremely odd that might appear to be.


Of course, that's also one of the places where police have arrested folks for little oddities like calling 911 (dozens of times!) to report there wasn't enough cheese on their cheeseburger.


Read some of Carl Hiaasen's novels. You'd swear he was on drugs, but he's a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist who's simply lived in Florida long enough to really know it: A very odd place, compared to the continental US.

I guess you never lived in Illinois . . . especially Chicago. Power to the People?

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by oldragbaggers

Those who live ashore pay water and sewer charges, why should boaters expect this to be a free service?.........

Perhaps they (we) shouldn't expect it to be free but we don't normally pay five to twenty dollars to dispose of twenty gallons of sewage while ashore. I can't really calculate it while away from home but my guess is we are paying a cent or so for that much sewage.

So install self serve pumpout machines everywhere boaters operate and charge 1 cent for their use. Problem solved!

The idea that the cruising lifestyle should be "free" seems to be a pervasive one.

Yes, especially among sailboaters. The wind is free so why isn't everything else? Anchorages, garbage and trash disposal, drinking and boat washing water. There is a recent thread about why boaters should not be forced to pay for moorings in FL and how they should be able to anchor just anywhere they please and for however long they please.

[Neeltje]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Explain? Sure. Flori-DUH (as several of the larger newspapers there refer to it) is not known for rational voting or rational voters. It is not known for spending generously OR wisely, or investing in the quality of life.


For instance, this year Florida came in at FIRST PLACE. Ah, in deaths by drowning while in a car. Something like 50 in the last five years, versus 18 for #2 (Texas) and around 8-9 for each of the next three top runners.


Why do Floridians drown in their cars? Uh, something about the cheap habit of constructing drainage canals alongside roads and highways, where an older population often just slips off the road, inverts in the canal, and drowns.


About 2-3 years ago they also noticed that after spending something like $12m on putting guardrails on the turnpikes, the number of drownings in those areas decreased. (Remember, the FAA puts about a $3.2m value on one American life.)


Wow, yathink? Put guardrails next to highways and canals, and fewer people will drown there?


This year, the problem seems to be that the lead supplier of guardrails changed their design without telling anyone, and folks (cars) are getting impaled instead of sliding along the guardrails.


And a formal statewide investigation of the last 2000 "deaths by police" concluded that in all cases, the cops were totally correct in shooting the civilians. Totally correct. No mistakes. 2000 deaths and never one mistake. You'd have to read up on the many reports of police behavior in Florida to see how extremely odd that might appear to be.


Of course, that's also one of the places where police have arrested folks for little oddities like calling 911 (dozens of times!) to report there wasn't enough cheese on their cheeseburger.


Read some of Carl Hiaasen's novels. You'd swear he was on drugs, but he's a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist who's simply lived in Florida long enough to really know it: A very odd place, compared to the continental US.

Someone once said that any moron can dock a boat. Now we have living proof.

Jacques

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by rwidman

Perhaps they (we) shouldn't expect it to be free but we don't normally pay five to twenty dollars to dispose of twenty gallons of sewage while ashore. I can't really calculate it while away from home but my guess is we are paying a cent or so for that much sewage.

There's a big difference between a system that whisks waste away from your home to a treatment plant with the push of a lever in your bathroom and a one where a human has to come to your location by boat and remove your waste by mecanical means (hopefully not getting any on himself in the process) and then transport it (again by boat) to a pumpout station for disposal.

I have owned and operated a boat-to-boat pumpout service. Twenty bucks doesn't even come close to being enough for a pumpout.

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by fstbttms

There's a big difference between a system that whisks waste away from your home to a treatment plant with the push of a lever in your bathroom and a one where a human has to come to your location by boat and remove your waste by mecanical means (hopefully not getting any on himself in the process) and then transport it (again by boat) to a pumpout station for disposal.

I have owned and operated a boat-to-boat pumpout service. Twenty bucks doesn't even come close to being enough for a pumpout.

Of course it doesn't but faced with a $20 charge (plus tip) to discharge twenty gallons of sewage, many boaters will simply wait for nightfall and take care of it themselves.

My suggestion though was to install self service pumpout stations on land, connected to city sewer systems. On marina or public docks. No attendant, only equipment and maintenance costs. I remember one at Sandy Point State Park just off the Chesapeake Bay in MD.

[smj]

Originally Posted by Dulcesuenos

The funding will continue and the state will continue to spend the money that could have been used to provide a service that indeed keeps our waters slightly cleaner. The money will be offered to provide pump stations at live aboard marinas instead. All well and good whenever that happens. Any how thats what is said, if the offer of free pumps happen, great. Until then Jan 31 2015 the boats stop. I doubt private individuals will try to operate the pump out boats even charging. How will this impact large mooring fields like Boot key or key west? We invested in a composter, and love it, I also like to swim in the water and not worry about blind mullets or brown trout swimming into me. I am not naive to think that the people who dump their waste into the water prior to free pump took advantage of the service anyways, their habits don't change, and that is sad.

Sent from my LG-LS980 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

I think you hit the nail on the head, composting heads are the future.

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by smj

Could you provide a link to that? My understanding is the EPA has no regulations concerning the dumping of grey water.

Even in the Great Lakes, Zero Discharge Zone, we are permitted gray water.

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by rwidman

Of course it doesn't but faced with a $20 charge (plus tip) to discharge twenty gallons of sewage, many boaters will simply wait for nightfall and take care of it themselves.

My suggestion though was to install self service pumpout stations on land, connected to city sewer systems. On marina or public docks. No attendant, only equipment and maintenance costs. I remember one at Sandy Point State Park just off the Chesapeake Bay in MD.

Umm... where do you think the vast majority of the CVA grant fund funds have gone since the law was passed? To the installation of shoreside pumpout stations. You act like these don't exist.

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by fstbttms

Umm... where do you think the vast majority of the CVA grant fund funds have gone since the law was passed? To the installation of shoreside pumpout stations. You act like these don't exist.

Certainly not enough of them. In the long run a stationary dockside pumpout connected to the town seweres, even if initially more expensive, is way cheaper than boat2boat type. In our mooirng field we're supposed to get two separate free pumpout boats from two towns, each on the opposite side of the harbor. One of them (hoity-toity town) decided that we are the riff-raff on our side of the harbor and continually (for the past 7-8 years) keep their pumpout boat "out of service" while I'm sure getting all the available grants. So it's up to the other town (more working class) to provide the service which they do a great job of. Both towns do have a dockside free self-service stations but the shlep is quite long and the wait there can be long on weekends so one is forced to circle around burning fuel, which is not great for the environment, not to mention tight quarters for circling. There are a few landing docks all along the shore which could use a pumpout station or two and those could easily replace boat2boat service. Often it is not the question of $$ but its smart allocation.