clipper race yacht abandoned after grounding

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by JohnT

And all is revealed in the official report (it makes VERY interesting reading):

https://assets.publishing.service.go..._12_-_CV24.pdf

And the annexes:

https://assets.publishing.service.go...24_Annexes.pdf

John

it is UK based event and crew probably uk people.

From what i have observed so far, uk sailors have worst skills if one sorts them by nation. I contribute this to James Cook effect. As he was english and good sailor, all uk people think they are good sailors without any training.

Regrettably this is just dreaming.

As they say, misery is the best teacher, so eventually they will wake up after grounding or two.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

it is UK based event and crew probably uk people.

From what i have observed so far, uk sailors have worst skills if one sorts them by nation. I contribute this to James Cook effect. As he was english and good sailor, all uk people think they are good sailors without any training.

Regrettably this is just dreaming.

As they say, misery is the best teacher, so eventually they will wake up after grounding or two.

Hmmm... I await the responses to this, errrr, interesting post. Should be entertaining.

Jim

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

it is UK based event and crew probably uk people.

From what i have observed so far, uk sailors have worst skills if one sorts them by nation. I contribute this to James Cook effect. As he was english and good sailor, all uk people think they are good sailors without any training.

Regrettably this is just dreaming.

As they say, misery is the best teacher, so eventually they will wake up after grounding or two.

Cold and quiet day is it? Need a good internet argument?

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by estarzinger

Honestly, the report is shocking.
The MCA needs to rethink the minimum manning and training requirements for this event.

Yes, the report shows a great many horrendous deficiencies: there's plenty to go around.

One of the factors that stood out for me, is that with the change of legs, they get crew changes, and ongoing crew may change their jobs. And these guys had one day practice on the water together. Just one quick day to get to know each other, learn how to work together well, and learn the boat. Dear me.

The history shows that the management are more interested in filling paying crew positions than in paying professional crew. I hope they make generous donations to the RNLI and equivalent organizations at least in their destination points.

[Jim Cate]

A slightly off topic question: when a boat drops (or grounds) out of the race, what happens for the crew who paid large sums of money to participate? Do they get a refund or what? And how about those who had paid to be on later legs on a boat that has been cut up and dumpstered?

Jim

[JohnT]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

A slightly off topic question: when a boat drops (or grounds) out of the race, what happens for the crew who paid large sums of money to participate? Do they get a refund or what? And how about those who had paid to be on later legs on a boat that has been cut up and dumpstered?

Jim

Interesting thought Jim! I did some fast reading yesterday and need to re-read the report again later today when I have time, before passing any comment.

However, I presume that the paying crew are generally folk that work hard to save up to be able to participate in the race. They book their air tickets well in advance to be able to arrive at the start point of their leg or legs and their return tickets from the end points. Most take leave from their place of employment as well - all after paying the high fee to be on the boat in the first place! And most have little or no previous sailing experience! The financial loss must be quite substantial when their boat ends up in a dumpster.

John.

[fivecapes]

Not a great record, 17 other groundings prior to this one in the last 5 years, and a very, very near miss by CV31.

12 teams, 8 legs, 5 years. 3.6% chance of a grounding in any given year.

Not to mention loss of 2 lives and 2 vessels in that period.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

it is UK based event and crew probably uk people.

From what i have observed so far, uk sailors have worst skills if one sorts them by nation. I contribute this to James Cook effect. As he was english and good sailor, all uk people think they are good sailors without any training.

Regrettably this is just dreaming.

As they say, misery is the best teacher, so eventually they will wake up after grounding or two.

This is a business! they just happen to be selling berths on yachts doing ocean passages. Don't confuse this business with UK sailors who do it for fun. Arsenelipiga, you haven't sailed in France have you ;-)

I wonder if by calling it a race they are able to circumnavigate the quite strict rules for small commercial vessels operating in the UK and therefore reduce the manning levels to a point were only the skipper has a good understanding. The skipper and each watch leader should be a commercially endorsed YM, after all they are being paid.

Pete

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

it is UK based event and crew probably uk people.

From what i have observed so far, uk sailors have worst skills if one sorts them by nation. I contribute this to James Cook effect. As he was english and good sailor, all uk people think they are good sailors without any training.

Regrettably this is just dreaming.

As they say, misery is the best teacher, so eventually they will wake up after grounding or two.

[fxykty]

I have a reasonably good friend who is doing this edition on Visit Seattle. She is a primary school teacher here in Auckland and is taking a leave of absence to do the whole race. She had some sailing experience and crewed for me on a Hobie 16 for a season, but nothing offshore. She trained in AUS for 3 or 4 weeks for the first couple crew levels, then spent 6 weeks training in the UK. Lots of training, but of course many crew are starting from zero or near zero. Amazing opportunity for people looking for an adventure.

Relative to crews I raced with in the Sydney Hobart I’d say the individual crew members are better trained, but generally with less sailing experience.

Having read the report and annexes linked earlier I’m absolutely gob smacked that ‘navigator’ is not a permanent position on the crews. And how about nearly the entire fleet ignoring the mandatory stand off requirements?!? Doesn’t race control enforce their own rules?

It certainly looks like Clipper has tried to get away with not hiring two Yachtmasters per boat as the MCA wanted them to. But it seems like they’re now being required to have two pros on each boat. I think the Clipper Race is cutting corners and short-changing it’s customers on safety.

The watch hand over on the boat seemed pretty slack, especially with the lack of situational awareness by the so called watch leader, let alone the skipper. The other boat that grounded was bloody lucky to escape and keep racing.

That passage plan copied in the annex was pathetic - the skipper obviously has too many things to do and can’t spend a proper amount of time on navigation. Dramatic contrast with the Volvo, which mandates a full time navigator who is not part of the watch system.

Sigh, a great idea spoiled by having to make the money to pay for the ever-green fleet of race boats, cutting corners and allowing the skippers to be sloppy. Thankfully in this case there was no loss of life.

[Pete7]

It would appear they were given exemption to the traffic separation scheme just off Cape Town, bet the other traffic were please about that.

And the comprehensive passage plan across an ocean and through the roaring Forties. I think its fair to say the skipper failed in leaving SA to port.



[I]After receipt of the logbook for leg 3 at the pre-race brief on 30 October 2017, the
skipper filled in the passage planning template (Annex I). In the weather forecast
section of the passage plan, the skipper noted NW16 3 – 5 for start of race. In the
section titled Detailed Narative Plan [sic], it stated:
Race course in Table Bay
SA17 to port
Rottnest Island Stbd
Freemantle via fairway [sic][I/]

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Pete7

It would appear they were given exemption to the traffic separation scheme just off Cape Town, bet the other traffic were please about that.

And the comprehensive passage plan across an ocean and through the roaring Forties. I think its fair to say the skipper failed in leaving SA to port.



[I]After receipt of the logbook for leg 3 at the pre-race brief on 30 October 2017, the
skipper filled in the passage planning template (Annex I). In the weather forecast
section of the passage plan, the skipper noted NW16 3 – 5 for start of race. In the
section titled Detailed Narative Plan [sic], it stated:
Race course in Table Bay
SA17 to port
Rottnest Island Stbd
Freemantle via fairway [sic][I/]

Actually, I think he was excessively verbose!

How about:

1. Cast off dock lines in Cape Town.

2. Tie up to dock in Fremantle.

That covers it pretty well...

Jim