Charter Co says run engine 4 hrs daily (!) to charge batteries

[Gadagirl]

The last time I chartered with friends in the BVI in 2016 the same requirements were asked of us. We did our best to comply but sometimes fell short. My impression/guess as to the reason behind the request was that 1) The charter company didn't want to send chase boats out to people that ran down the batteries or lost Air Con or refrigeration. 2) The charter companies wanted to extend the life of the batteries (keeping them properly charged) because they would otherwise have to replace them. 3) The charter companies are not concerned about the amount of engine hours on an alternator or a Genset since they are rarely responsible for replacing them during the 4-5 years a boat spends in charter before decommission.

It makes financial sense. Replace batteries less. Spend less on chase boats. Spend on maintenance of alternators and gensets.

[AJ_n_Audrey]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

Honestly, the fact that something like that is in a boating course is shocking to me. Battery systems, charging needs, etc. are so boat specific that it's pretty much impossible to make a generalization like that. Depending on systems design you may need multiple hours a day of generator or engine runtime when away from shore power while another boat could go a week without burning any fuel.

Agree. I would follow the charter company's instructions. They have experience with their boats and you do not.

[Indolent58]

We chartered a 2017 Jeanneau 409 in Grenada in February that had 2900 hours on the engine. We weren't told a specific number of hours to run the engine but were told to turn the refrigerator off at night. We found that this was indeed necessary as the house bank was clobbered when we didn't. The bank was both undersized and in poor condition - it wouldn't reach full charge even when motoring most of the day. I can only assume the 4 hour rule is meant to allow for batteries in poor condition and inattentive crew. Our overall impression was that the charter company kept their boats in a state of "just barely good enough."

[flyingfin]

Originally Posted by Tetepare

28 hours/week and 14 starts just to charge. I’m surprised any of the boats coming out of charter still run.

Most ex-charter boats have few engine problems, compared to the dock queens who sit in a marina for years on end with little use. Go to a truck stop and see how many old diesels are still running

[rmesfo]

Originally Posted by frolson71

Getting ready for a charter in the BVI in 2 weeks. The charter Co is telling me that I have to run the engine at 1500 RPM 4 hrs a day, 2 hrs in am and 2 hrs in pm! Does that sound remotely right? Hat will seriously dampen our enjoyment. Oceanis 35 if it matters. TIA

Block ice, do all the time.

[Clivevon]

4 hours a day to charge batteries. Boy have you hit a nerve! Running the ******* engine for hours every day chasing the ******* battery charge to keep the ******* freezers going so we could have the ******* fresh meat every day my Australian sister in law insisted on taking for a whole week cruising the Whitsundays in a super duper chartered (supposedly sailing) catamaran anchoring every night (instead of the canned food, caught fish & other alternatives I had always assumed we would be using for a trip like that) did not entirely spoil the whole trip for me but as a sailor it sure took the shine off it & we never did THAT again. And the supposed smart charger system didnt work either. Why do you think people buy their own boats?
Strongly suggest you find a marina with shorepower as often as possible, & dine out. Have a good trip.

[waterman46]

I dispute the idea that a smaller bank charges faster. Smaller bank actually charges slower, to replace the same daily usage of AH required by the boat. And anyway, such operation stresses the battery bank more, causing it to have progressively reduced capacity, requiring more charging time, etc.

A larger bank allows usage in the optimum range of about 40% to 80% of full charge, during a whole day cycle. In that range, battery charging is rapid since you never attempt to charge at high battery charge condition where acceptance current is lower.

A smaller bank will require more time to charge to get the same AH usage out of it. That's because you'll have to do more of the charging in the inefficient range of high charge condition. If you can get more AH during a daily cycle by avoiding the high end of the battery charge condition, you'll run the engine less.

[SaltyMetals]

I agree w Morgan and did exactly that on my own boat from 3 x 110Ah traditional LA to 4 x 110Ah Victron AGM and then reduced the engine battery from 110Ah to 80Ah. So my COC rarely drops below 75% but i have solar with MPPT controllers so do not have to run the engine to be charging when it is in the 80-100% range. This of course is no use to someone who is chartering and i have had similar problems w charters myself.

One thing to look out for is the number of phones & iPads being charged at night. At 1-2A each and 4 people on board, some of whome willl have both phone & iPad plus maybe a stand alone BT speaker they will be using more than a fridge. So I encourage everyone to bring their own good-sized power block which can easily be re-charged if visiting a marina or restaurant from time to time. This is a good solution for someone who charters
Andrew

[Chris Cringle]

Originally Posted by frolson71

My ASA 104 course materials say "expect to need at least two hours of engine time every day to keep the batteries properly charged....an hour of charging to the morning run and another hour later in the day...should suffice."

Having to run the engine for twice that, or a full 25% of my waking hours each day on my trip, seemed excessive and at variance with what I was taught. Hence my question.

Your ASA 104 course material differs with what the people who own and maintain the boat say? Well this is simple: Do it your way and if the boat's systems crash, just show the boat your ASA 104 course completion certificate. That should solve the problem.

[Snore]

Charter companies charter to credit card skippers. So, they issue directives to cover their butts and make their lives easier.

Depending on use, a battery bank of ample size does not need that much recharging.

BUT, I feel sorry for the charterer who leaves with 1,000 hours on the engine. And 5 days later has 1,012 hours on the engine and dead batteries.

You are renting their boat- follow their rules!

That said, I would still check voltage a few times a day- you may find you need to run the engine even longer.

[sailorboy1]

What difference does it make to a charterer that they wear out the engine to charge the batteries enough to run the frig? They are on vacation and just want the drinks and food to stay cold. Before solar all cruising boats operated this way unless it had a generator.

4 hours isn't really enough to charge the batteries and battery life will suffer. But who cares as that is the charter company's problem.

[Winf]

People generally seem to have a limited knowledge on things electrical. I put myself in the same category. That was especially the case regarding solar and batteries.

But you can learn and gain at least a working knowledge of the basics. Its not that complicated.

When we purchased our yacht, the PO told us the two solar panels were more than enough to keep the house bank fully charged. This was two ageing 50W panels charging a 420AH battery bank with a fridge drawing around 4A. We added a small freezer unit adding another 2.5A of refrigeration load.

I knew the numbers didn't stack up when the lights started going dim early in the evening and the fridge was shutting down.

Our batteries were totally clapped out from that abuse. When I started research there was no way that solar was going to keep that bank charged without some serious engine run hours.

Long engine run hours to charge batteries was not what we wanted for our cruising. So we learnt what we needed, added what we could and accepted compromises for the rest.

Previous posters are quite correct though. Charging requirements will vary for each boat. Unless you are going to charter a full Russian oligarch super yacht, it aint going to be like at home.

So unless you want to spend time understanding this particular system, given it is a short term charter, I too would follow the recommendation of the charter company and make the most of what will most likely be a great experience.

Refrigeration will be the big electrical consumer. For us it accounts for around 65% of our electrical demand. Whatever you can do to save on that will pay back in less charging hours. Become conscious of what is left on and turn it off it is isn't needed. It all adds up to less amp hours used and less charging needed.

As an aside, we put better seals on our fridge and added a neat little computer style cooling fan to vent the fridge compressor unit area. The drop in fridge run hours was significant. Was much less cost than adding generation.

Have now added solid latching arrangement to seal the fridge even better. Will be interested to see if that adds more cooling efficiency when we set off again. Take home message is its not always directly about the amps.

I chartered a house boat once and received similar instructions on charging. It had a small petrol generator that ran for a couple of hours each day to charge up. It was on the roof deck and was pretty quiet. We took ice boxes and minimised the fridge use - had a great time. You will too.

Winf

[Siberian Sea]

Many charter vessels have 110/220 electric refrigerators and use an inverter to power them, in addition the hot water is often electric too. So you don’t want to run the engine a few hours each day I assume because the noise. Keep in mind how dead batteries and a service call to the charter company might have a negative effect more then a few hours of charging. If the batteries are good and your not an idiot about energy consumption you probably get buy with running the engine less then what they ask, just keep in mind the morons charter companies sometimes deal with. I work for a charter company, maybe even the one you are chartered with and after a while you find it even amazing some of the clients can even manage to find their way out of the harbor. I’m not talking about you, rather just a few other folks whom we have had to go out and pull off sand bars, lines in props, dropped dinghy engines in deep water, sails destroyed, and many many collisions, hell they even get lost just on the other side of the island regardless of the plotter and charts. It’s scary to think about it. Enjoy you sailing time and for the first day or say just shut off the one battery switch that is used for starting and keep it off until it’s time to start the engine then you have one isolated ready.

[Stu Jackson]

Finally, logic prevails. And physics, too. Thanks for that, I just didn't feel like typing it and you did a great job. You'd think after more than 50 years of Basic Battery Chemistry it would have sunken in by now?...

Originally Posted by waterman46

I dispute the idea that a smaller bank charges faster. Smaller bank actually charges slower, to replace the same daily usage of AH required by the boat. And anyway, such operation stresses the battery bank more, causing it to have progressively reduced capacity, requiring more charging time, etc.

A larger bank allows usage in the optimum range of about 40% to 80% of full charge, during a whole day cycle. In that range, battery charging is rapid since you never attempt to charge at high battery charge condition where acceptance current is lower.

A smaller bank will require more time to charge to get the same AH usage out of it. That's because you'll have to do more of the charging in the inefficient range of high charge condition. If you can get more AH during a daily cycle by avoiding the high end of the battery charge condition, you'll run the engine less.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by Winf

People generally seem to have a limited knowledge on things electrical. I put myself in the same category. That was especially the case regarding solar and batteries.

But you can learn and gain at least a working knowledge of the basics. Its not that complicated.
...
...

winf, thanks for this, too.


I've been sayin' this for decades: None of us was born an electrician. But you can learn. It's basically simple math, and even "artistes" can balance checkbooks. Maybe...???