Changes to the forum

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by skipgundlach

I've noted frequently - not necessarily here - that it's not necessary to be disagreeable to disagree...

Originally Posted by OldFrog75

As they say, "Argue the message not the messenger..."

+1 on What these two say.

It is possible for people to have diametrically opposite beliefs and opinions, and to voice those differences strongly, yet remain civil and polite. My views of society, economics and marine heads clash with many (most? ), but I still try and discuss these issues courteously and with respect. I don't always succeed. Sometimes I hit the "Submit" button a bit too fast, but I keep reminding myself that despite the silly handles most people hide behind here, we are all still real people.

The simple test I use when I'm hot and bothered about a post:
Would I say this to your face if we were having this discussion at the dock or over a beer?

Just like with reefing, if I have to ask the question (of myself) then I already know the answer. I usually delete that post and start again.

[Sailing55]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

+1 on What these two say.

It is possible for people to have diametrically opposite beliefs and opinions, and to voice those differences strongly, yet remain civil and polite. My views of society, economics and marine heads clash with many (most? ), but I still try and discuss these issues courteously and with respect. I don't always succeed. Sometimes I hit the "Submit" button a bit too fast, but I keep reminding myself that despite the silly handles most people hide behind here, we are all still real people.

The simple test I use when I'm hot and bothered about a post:
Would I say this to your face if we were having this discussion at the dock or over a beer?

Just like with reefing, if I have to ask the question (of myself) then I already know the answer. I usually delete that post and start again.

Mike, you were doing quite well...right up to the "despite the silly handles most people hide behind here" .

Is this an example of hitting the "Submit" button a little too fast, or are you calling me, a person you know absolutely nothing about, a "silly person"?

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Cap Erict3

The civility that marked CF as a notch above other sailing forums no longer seems to be a priority.

Maybe it was the earlier diligence of the moderators but intolerance seems rampant with little over site.




------------------------------
Looking for another pretty place to work on the boat.

I think some is in jest between CF friends. Some is not, I have posted something like, come on kids play nice. And yes I have had the heckles on the nape of my neck up. I've tried asking the moderator if it wasn't time to shut it down.

Just ignore the people with no class.

[Cheechako]

Yeah, too many people just insist on being "right". I love it when they post a page full of formulas to create the impression they must be right. Haha, I've hired and fired enough engineers to know that situations have many variables, and many are not predicted! (I'm sure an engineering team with the latest computers that designed the Americas Cup boat that broke in half in light air thought it met all criteria!)
I think one should state their opinion and let the chips fall where they may. I've been trying to not even respond when someone gets hard line on a statement I make. I really don't care. The OP can take my advice as one more tool in his tool chest. Every situation is different, gleaning the right info for your particular situation is what's important.
I've also changed my opinion many times over the years, so I don't pretend to think I know it all.

[Sailing55]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Yeah, too many people just insist on being "right". I love it when they post a page full of formulas to create the impression they must be right. Haha, I've hired and fired enough engineers to know that situations have many variables, and many are not predicted! (I'm sure an engineering team with the latest computers that designed the Americas Cup boat that broke in half in light air thought it met all criteria!)
I think one should state their opinion and let the chips fall where they may. I've been trying to not even respond when someone gets hard line on a statement I make. I really don't care. The OP can take my advice as one more tool in his tool chest. Every situation is different, gleaning the right info for your particular situation is what's important.
I've also changed my opinion many times over the years, so I don't pretend to think I know it all.

True enough...many folks seem to either forget or are not aware that every person answering a question on topics presented here is giving their opinion based on their own unique experience. The problem for the less experienced is how to weed out the comments from "experts" that have no real knowledge of the subject matter.
And I agree 100% regarding changing ones opinion based on new experience or information.

[Sailorbob8599]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

(I'm sure an engineering team with the latest computers that designed the Americas Cup boat that broke in half in light air thought it met all criteria!)

Was that an engineering goof, ... or a construction goof? ... just asking.

[LakeSuperior]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Yeah, too many people just insist on being "right". I love it when they post a page full of formulas to create the impression they must be right. Haha, I've hired and fired enough engineers to know that situations have many variables, and many are not predicted! (I'm sure an engineering team with the latest computers that designed the Americas Cup boat that broke in half in light air thought it met all criteria!)
I think one should state their opinion and let the chips fall where they may. I've been trying to not even respond when someone gets hard line on a statement I make. I really don't care. The OP can take my advice as one more tool in his tool chest. Every situation is different, gleaning the right info for your particular situation is what's important.
I've also changed my opinion many times over the years, so I don't pretend to think I know it all.

You do realize you would still be living in a mud hut walking to work in the field barefoot without engineering.

I know you had good cause to fire enough engineers and and I hope you threw their useless computers out with them. Darn sure would be a better world without those dim witted engineers. Bring back the abacus!!

[Pelagic]

This Thread is what I would call "Recreational Complaining"
It is impossible to truly discern the intent of a poster by reading the often striated sentences, ironically inhibited by typing on our so called "Smart" phones.
Even this post eludes me to what my mood or PC level of correctness is

.but maybe it's just because I'm feeling a bit constipated this morning.

Just kidding... Chill out and enjoy each other...:thumbup:

[buzzstar]

Sometimes I find what I want, sometimes I don't. Sometimes I ask questions, sometimes I answer them, sometimes people are nice, sometimes they are gross. Some of the posts are driven by the desire to acquire stars, sometimes it is just the post. But for this forum, sometimes I'd be toast, and then I would not need to post.

[Janet H]

Thanks for your various comments. Cruisers Forum is an international community and while members disagree about many things, they also share a common interest in cruising. That said, it's often the case that what seems like reasonable discourse to one member will be perceived as combative by another. This is an ongoing challenge and finding the narrow space between open discussion and full on food fights is sometimes difficult.

That said, the forum has rules and we expect discussion to be collegial. Here is a link to those rules: http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ork&page=rules

If you see something that appears to run afoul of this, please report it to the site team but do not take it upon yourself to respond in kind tot he problem post/s. This only amplifies problems and makes restoring peace more difficult.

If you disagree with an opinion posted, state your reasons and then move on but do not belabor the issue. At the end of the day, we are all here because we share some common interests, but that doesn't mean we will always agree. There is no harm in holding an alternative position BUT how you express this may become an issue if you can't do it in responsible way.

Help us keep CF as it was always intended. Report problems, don't just pile on. Be friendly and polite and above all please think before you hit reply. Consider how your post might be perceived by others.

[tbodine88]

I was offended when a moderator changed my capitalization, but then I realized it was no big deal.

I like it here. offensive language be d**md

[Sailing55]

Originally Posted by Sailorbob8599

Was that an engineering goof, ... or a construction goof? ... just asking.

Interesting question...but considering that they were presumably pushing the limits of both, maybe it wasn't a "goof". Just exceeding the limits...

[GoingWalkabout]

Originally Posted by Capt Phil

Sorry, Goingwalkabout... No intention to offend. Just 'fessin up to what some might have construed as past bad behavior and committing to try and do better.
It is usually the non-saling type comments and discussions that light my fire. Cheers, Phil

Hi Capt Phil. I was of course jesting with you. Typical kind of talk amongst friends from downunder. Even though I don't live there now and haven't for many years, old habits are hard to break. In fact in the land of OZ, it is common for the closest of friends to throw insults at one another. Its kind of humor that is dying out in this every so sensitive world. I remember when I first came to the USA and innocently used the same kind of humor on new friends some were highly offended. Thats when I learned some people just don't have a sense of humor.

There is a wise old saying by someone called nameless. "Life is too short to be taken seriously" and then there is the famous quote given to Captain Bligh as he was being lowered in his little skiff by the mutineers, "life was not meant to be easy". I would add that life was not meant to be this hard.

Talking about a hard life. It is common amongst all groups of people to develop a self deprecating and sarcastic sense of humor to battle the non stop harshness of life around them. Jewish people used to be famous for their particular style of humor that was born out of the hardships of Europe where they were constantly being threatened. Then as in Australia, not so many years ago really, pioneers who had to battle and build a life in a far away continent developed a dry and ironic sense of humor with a healthy mix of sarcasm. Im not sure if it is the same today but if someone was always so ever so nice to you all the time you never thought of them as a close friend. After all it is only close friends that insult one another.

Having said all that. Capt Phil. I said what I said as humor and as an act of friendship.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

I've also changed my opinion many times over the years, so I don't pretend to think I know it all.

Great observation. I, too, have, and many times from discussions right here. A couple of examples:

AIS - receiver only or transmit?

Standalone or integrated autopilot - I still don't integrate, but recognize now that aps won't turn the boat unless acknowledged - very important point

I still don't "get" why folks think charging their start battery first instead of their house bank from the alternator is "better" but I had these discussions over on ybw.com until I gave up, me and Maine Sail, too!

I have my Rocna and my PHII head, so I get pulled off the bow rather than drag like my friends with their CQRs, and I don't need or want a composting head.

But I'm not set in my ways, by no means, and anyone who argues with me about these things....:confused :

My 26 year old son has recently enlightened me about the "newer" meaning of "PC." Us older dudes and dudettes learned the phrase maybe 30 years ago, when it simply meant: "Be nice and try not to embarrass either your audience or yourself." Now, he contends, it's about the silliness of people thinking they should be "safe" all the time, and always have an environment where they never have to think for themselves. Kinda creepy if I understand his example of kids going to college and being wanted to be treated as if they are in kindergarten. That really takes it too far, IMHO.

But it seems to me that there are two kinds of threads on this and other boating forums:

1. Fact based stuff, usually found in the technical articles and threads about electrical, plumbing and propulsion. Even there, there are differences of opinions, like the use of ACRs.

2. Almost all the others. The "How Old is Too Old" I thought was hilarious. An earlier "how old" related to the age of the OP. The new one is about the age of the boat! Good one! Had me confused there for a bit, but then, I'm easily confused, as you know. Right?

I also thought reopening the Silly Costs off topic thread was a very good move, thanks a64.

Write it, read it and, as suggested, see if YOU think you'd like to have it directed at YOU.

Like zeehag says: "Treat others the way yourself would like to be treated."

Keep up the good work, this is a priceless forum.

Thanks again to all the folks who make it happen.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by morven55

Mike, you were doing quite well...right up to the "despite the silly handles most people hide behind here" .

Is this an example of hitting the "Submit" button a little too fast, or are you calling me, a person you know absolutely nothing about, a "silly person"?

Reading Comprehension 101

It is NOT what Mike said.

What he DID say was: "... despite the silly handles most people hide behind here, we are all still real people."

BIG difference, at least to me.