Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)

[tomfl]

Originally Posted by boatman61

You could look into the 'Spot Phone'... should cover most every where your going..
SPOT Global Phone

I considered that option as well as some other Spot products. Also know about this one

InReach

Still researching which one is best.

[Matt Johnson]

Originally Posted by boatman61

You could look into the 'Spot Phone'... should cover most every where your going..
SPOT Global Phone

Isn't this just a rebranded Globalstar? I have yet to meet anyone who's happy with their Globalstar service. The company keep saying that coverage has improved...they've been saying that for at least four years.

[SaltyMonkey]

Originally Posted by funjohnson

Isn't this just a rebranded Globalstar? I have yet to meet anyone who's happy with their Globalstar service. The company keep saying that coverage has improved...they've been saying that for at least four years.

Yes it is, but the data plans are pretty nice

EDIT Looked at the coverage maps. Very iffy still

[Matt Johnson]

Originally Posted by tomfl

I considered that option as well as some other Spot products. Also know about this one

InReach

Still researching which one is best.

Way off topic, but that doesn't seem to be an issue in this thread.

Unless things have changed since I last looked, a real sat phone is cheaper overall than the Inreach. Incoming text are free with Iridium and Inmarsat, and you're charged for each one with the Inreach. Inmarsat's outgoing text are only 50 cents and you're not stuck with a monthly plan....we buy them in $100 blocks and have months to use them.


Matt

[EzzyD]

Originally Posted by weavis

I have a friend who breeds homing pigeons.
If you up to a bit of bird company, they are rather nice.
Come with a lovely message neck band.

Just make sure they are real pigeons. Not an albatros... (Albatros shall bring bad luck ).

Also insure you have some onions... In case of emergency you can always fry up some onions and pigeon... if he refuses to deliver your message.....

[Tantalus]

Originally Posted by thuss

Eric, FWIW having done similar length passages in the pacific on almost the same boat (HC 38), I'd set off with my wife and young kids (and have) and would have pulled the epirb right when you did. I'd call in help and ditch our boat in a second to go with my daughter if she needed serious medical attention.

If I'm ever in the same situation I sure hope I won't be that ******* husband that thinks staying with the boat is more important than staying with the family.

You're a role model, not for living the dream, but for making the hard choices (which are the ones that really matter)!

Ditto!!!

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by funjohnson

Isn't this just a rebranded Globalstar? I have yet to meet anyone who's happy with their Globalstar service. The company keep saying that coverage has improved...they've been saying that for at least four years.

Dunno.. just noticed it when I got my Spot Gen3 earlier this year so thought I'd mention it.. figured it'd have the same coverage as my Spot which gave my track across the Atlantic.

[Tantalus]

Originally Posted by weavis

This is not an official enquiry. This is a voluntary discussion by the captain of the vessel that was abandoned open to all, and as such hard questions have been asked.

With it NOT being an official enquiry, absolutes do not have to assessed. There is no material evidence to examine. The boat has gone. There is recollection and notes made and a series of events recorded, which all came together in the known outcome.

I have read and re read this thread several times. I have discussed with experienced professional mariners the actions they would have taken in certain conditions, and they agreed independently on certain tactics and methodology.

I have 'some' boat building experience, but also asked professionals who are experts in their field what they thought. I found out my surmises were wrong…

One of my colleagues here gave a medical opinion regarding childrens illnesses and quoted percentages based on studies. It is not my place to agree or disagree, but merely to consider what I would do in making my choice and whether or not his comments would affect my choice.

I looked at the preparations made to make the boat ready for a world cruise. I looked at the captains sailing experience and I looked at the crew members who would be on this trip.

I am responsible for my life. Part of the natural survival instinct for man, is to evaluate situations that we voluntarily place ourselves in.

Even before ANY voyage begins, and I am crew, I ask myself some questions.

[*]How much experience does a Captain have in handling boats? [*]How much experience does he have in undertaking the particular cruising that is being proposed. [*]What kind of personality is he or she. [*]Is there arrogance on display. [*]How much planning for the worst scenario has been undertaken?

And the big one........ Do I trust this person based on everything I know with my life?

Im not going to place a judgement on what went wrong in the events that unfolded. I dont know what really happened. This discussion did not answer any of the questions.

It is not unknown for humans to be economical with the truth, be it personally or in order to survive the rest of their life, its just the way it is. As humans we lie to ourselves more than we lie to others, and that is a whole other subject in itself.

Eric has explained from his perspective what happened. It may or may not be the whole truth. It however, is his truth and he will stand by it because that is what he sees. We have to take him at his explanation because as Rich Borens said, "he was there".

For the rest of us, with our experience of life, our abilities, our individual expertise, our suspicions of circumstance, our natures....... we will form an independent opinion based on all we have observed. It may be wrong, but it is where we will stand.

Im not seeing the outcome of this trip as the ‘problem’. It was the end of a series of events that started a long time ago.

Even though Eric did everything "RIGHT" in the combination and circumstances at the end, it didn’t matter.

Some decisions and attitudes lead a person down a path that are only one way. There are no “if onlys” and “ I could have done it except for………..’ You get one shot at this life thing and you gotta make a choice.

I don’t know Eric the same I don’t know people I read about in books or watch on TV. I see actions and results of actions. It doesn’t affect ME in any way. It does however make me think about attitudes, motivation, personality and preparation, and how MY projects and outcome depends on these things.

Unless we learn to be totally honest about ourselves and our real abilities, which are much MORE than whatever situation we find ourselves in (boat handling or knowing seafaring protocol aside) - the lesson will not have been learned and will happen again and again.

9 out 0f 10 mishaps happen for personality traits. Impatience, anger, sadness, disappointment, fear, arrogance, tiredness, lack of knowledge etc.

Its not for me to discuss publically what conclusions I have drawn regarding the episode, and frankly the only one who cares is me because it is not about this situation, it is about making sure that I do EVERYTHING possible to avoid being in the SAME situation given the same circumstances.

It doesnt mean I wont be shipwrecked....... It means it wont be these circumstances that got me there if I learned from This episode.

For that lesson, I am grateful to Eric and relieved for them all.

It is part of the human nature always to judge others very severely and, when the wind turns against us, always to find an excuse for our own misdeeds, or to blame someone else for our mistakes.

There is no need to blame Rebel Heart collectively for anything. Now they need to inwardly reflect and work it out what went wrong.

Many have given pointers here. Its up to them to take on board the hardest criticisms and see if………….. just if there is validity in the comments.

Thank you for an exceedingly erudite summation!

[smackdaddy]

Metaphysics and Satphones. Nice.

You guys are...special.

I'm outta here...until it gets interesting again (i.e. - RH owns up.)

[SaltyMonkey]

Originally Posted by smackdaddy

Metaphysics and Satphones. Nice.

You guys are...special.

I'm outta here...until it gets interesting again (i.e. - RH owns up.)

Have a good one. Don't let the....oh never mind.

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by SaltyMonkey

Of course they can be proved. They have complete different domain space / problems to solve. If the domain space problems are different, and their results pass testing within their individual expected results, yet are different against each other, its provable.

Having a "different problem to solve" doesn't mean there isn't a shared domain. There are lots of commonalities between metaphysical and psychological introspection, and some of the problems are shared between the two.

"To be, or not to be" is the classic question in the shared space of inquiries about existence, as is "I think, therefore I am." Are they metaphysical or psychological? I'd suggest they're both. See: existentialism. What's more introspective than existence?

[minaret]

Existentialism? Really? You guys remind me of:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2jqEoioTQDk

[SaltyMonkey]

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

Having a "different problem to solve" doesn't mean there isn't a shared domain. There are lots of commonalities between metaphysical and psychological introspection, and some of the problems are shared between the two.

"To be, or not to be" is the classic question in the shared space of inquiries about existence, as is "I think, therefore I am." Are they metaphysical or psychological? I'd suggest they're both. See: existentialism. What's more introspective than existence?

Except their not.

One explores existence with postulates. Metaphysics.

The other explores the nature on why you might be thinking about existence based on behavior. Psychology.

@ weavis. My goldfish theory is proving correct

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by SaltyMonkey

Except their not.

One explores existence with postulates. Metaphysics.

The other explores the nature on why you might be thinking about existence based on behavior. Psychology.

@ weavis. My goldfish theory is proving correct

Two problems with your post.

1) your distinctions aren't correct. Both metaphysics and psychology involve postulates, which is another word for hypothesis.

2) I didn't say the two were the same. I simply pointed out that there is overlap. The very contemplation of existence is metaphysics. Contemplation of the same subject occurs in psychology.

When you prove there is no overlap, you've proven me wrong. You just haven't done that. I don't think you CAN do that without making a false premise, as metaphysics is quite broad, as is psychology.

[weavis]

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

Two problems with your post.

1) your distinctions aren't correct. Both metaphysics and psychology involve postulates, which is another word for hypothesis.

2) I didn't say the two were the same. I simply pointed out that there is overlap. The very contemplation of existence is metaphysics. Contemplation of the same subject occurs in psychology.

When you prove there is no overlap, you've proven me wrong. You just haven't done that. I don't think you CAN do that without making a false premise, as metaphysics is quite broad, as is psychology.

Well, it really changed the landscape when I suggested to look into themselves and see what the problem was..

Look, I will take out all references to metaphysical, (That I never put in the first place) and make it easy.

People have personality traits. Kindness, arrogance, gentleness, etc.
People have attitudes.
People have dreams.
People have ways of doing things and priorities.

People are known for their core traits. These traits are what drive a person or what is reflected as being the motivating force in ANY situation.

A core trait will be THE common theme in equation.

A friend of mine who is a recovering alcoholic, once told me this gem.

Whatever the problem,
Whatever the situation that is causing dissension and strife, no matter what you think the problem is, if alcohol is involved,
Alcohol is the problem.

Now replace the word alcohol with the negative trait that an individual has.

We all have them. One clinic partner of mine was driven by greed. You just knew whatever deal he was in, it was for his benefit only and no one else. This trait led to him losing his share in the clinic after he tried to screw us all.

Replace the word with arrogance. Replace the word with selfishness. Replace the word with Laziness etc etc….

Any major negative trait in the mix will be a golden thread through out ALL SITUATIONS, and will be the reason in the main for the outcome of any development.

We all have them. I have them, you have them.

What usually happens, say for a person who is arrogant or lazy, is that essential necessary and important work in preparation, is either ignored, overlooked or deemed not required for the end result. The cumulative result is a substandard product.

If a persons core trait, is an overriding negative one, albeit perhaps masked slightly so as to not be obvious, it will surface at the point of no return.

A friend of mine recently made an observation on another colleague that I laughed at, but essential was true……. This colleague is young, cocksure, arrogant, self willed, critical of others, thinks he knows best and ignores wisdom. We have noticed several ‘mistakes” creeping in from time to time that have been shrugged off as “unavoidable”..

My colleague calls him “An accident waiting to happen”. He will take a decision too far and someone will get hurt. His personality traits are the root.

My suggestion to look inward, is something we all need to do. To reflect on whether any of our personality traits translated into a reason or causation or contribution to the situation that we find ourselves in.

Ultimately, we humans have a protection mechanism too, we subconsciously evaluate all external stimuli and balance words against actions and body language and results. For those of us that apply common sense, we get a “feeling” if someone is OK or not…… a sense that perhaps something does not add up to the package being sold to us and we keep our distance.

None of the above is specific to this situation, it’s a generic explanation.

What is specific to this situation is that a lot of C.F. members are critical of actions taken, and certain aspects of the preparation and some have questioned the probability of certain events occurring in the manner described.

I don’t place myself in any camp. My nautical experience is limited to my nautical experience and I am NOT a professional mariner. I am not a boat builder.

For me, the question is not what happened or the explanation there of.

The question is WHY.

Why do many not agree with aspects of the story?
Why do many question the integrity of the boat build and repairs?
Why do many question certain events in the sequence?

And ultimately…… Why are there questions of doubt at all?

If there is any validity in the comments some have made, then my hope is that the crew of Rebel Heart (deceased) will admit to themselves that changes have to be made. If there is NO validity, then they must continue on with their lives in freedom from a bad conscience.

The rest of humanity will make their own decisions about us.

That is all any of us can do.