California Dive Boat Fire to Put Spotlight on Titanic's Legal Defense – gCaptain

[transmitterdan]

Originally Posted by GordMay

I haven't seen any such report. Can you provide a source?

Here is one:

https://www.npr.org/2019/09/04/75739...=1568297390957

But I am skeptical now about the “fog of war” confusing reporters, a few thousand miles away, between 911 and VHF distress call to USCG LA. Unless there is a 911 recording with verified caller ID I would say that the reporting is suspect. The original report I read about 911 call the day of the fire has been taken down. Perhaps because it was inaccurate.

[Hardhead]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

It's not just California and it's easy to manipulate juries (they typically are the ones not smart enough to get out of jury duty). There is a well established principal of "deep pockets" pays.

Many years ago, I had a job reviewing court cases for a state DOT (they didn't have sovereign immunity at the time). Some of the cases were crazy.

My favorite was a drunk driver ran off the road, hit a culvert headwall that was 20' off the edge of the lane. Flipped the car killing his passenger. He stumbled up to a nearby house and was 3 times the legal limit (lucky he didn't die from overdose). So drunk he didn't know if there was anyone else in the car...the lawyers paid without taking it to court because the headwall was 1/2" higher than standard. Didn't matter that they drunk was 99% at fault, it was the big evil govt and if there was the slightest reason, the jury would try to punish the big evil govt.

What are standards for? If they are just meaningless, they shouldn't be standards. I blame the defense lawyers, if they were good - they could have made it clear to the jury. Maybe it wasn't that simple. Who knows? The defense lawyers know - and they settled. Maybe they were wrong. People love to hate the government for some reason.

[Training Wheels]

Unless they have put in new cell towers on Santa Cruz in the last few years, I’d be surprised if there is cell coverage there.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

It's not just California and it's easy to manipulate juries (they typically are the ones not smart enough to get out of jury duty). There is a well established principal of "deep pockets" pays.

Many years ago, I had a job reviewing court cases for a state DOT (they didn't have sovereign immunity at the time). Some of the cases were crazy.

My favorite was a drunk driver ran off the road, hit a culvert headwall that was 20' off the edge of the lane. Flipped the car killing his passenger. He stumbled up to a nearby house and was 3 times the legal limit (lucky he didn't die from overdose). So drunk he didn't know if there was anyone else in the car...the lawyers paid without taking it to court because the headwall was 1/2" higher than standard. Didn't matter that they drunk was 99% at fault, it was the big evil govt and if there was the slightest reason, the jury would try to punish the big evil govt.

Well, this is just awful. And of course when the "big evil government" pays -- it is US paying, you and me. Just like when the "big evil insurance companies" pay


We desperately need tort reform. This is a racket and a huge drain on society. You can't blame the juries -- it's the jurisprudence and the judges who get appointed. Vast amounts of money is poured into lobbying against any such reforms.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Hardhead

What are standards for? If they are just meaningless, they shouldn't be standards. I blame the defense lawyers, if they were good - they could have made it clear to the jury. Maybe it wasn't that simple. Who knows? The defense lawyers know - and they settled. Maybe they were wrong. People love to hate the government for some reason.

It's not the lawyers, it's the LAW. The law needs to not allow recovery in such cases. The law has been bent and perverted by generations of precedent, but this can be overturned with the stroke of a pen by legislation, except that half at least of every legislature is deeply beholden to lobbyists, and a considerable number of legislators are trial lawyers themselves. Reform won't happen unless people gain awareness and rattle their cages. It is a fight between the people, and a corrupt industry which puts up a wall of money in order to keep the rules as they are:



https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/t...ratic-majority

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Hardhead

What are standards for? If they are just meaningless, they shouldn't be standards. I blame the defense lawyers, if they were good - they could have made it clear to the jury. Maybe it wasn't that simple. Who knows? The defense lawyers know - and they settled. Maybe they were wrong. People love to hate the government for some reason.

First, it's an industry standard not the LAW.

More importantly, they guy was the primary cause. No realistic reason to believe if it had been 1/2" shorter, it would have had any impact on the results.

Tort reform really should limit payouts to those who carry substantial fault. If you feel the need to punish the evil govt (ie: you and I), make that money go to a charity or to a program fixing the problem. This would at least would avoid the lottery mentality.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

. . . Tort reform really should limit payouts to those who carry substantial fault. If you feel the need to punish the evil govt (ie: you and I), make that money go to a charity or to a program fixing the problem. This would at least would avoid the lottery mentality.

At common law, if you had any fault at all you couldn't collect. It was called contributory negligence. An eminently sensible principle.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

.......Reform won't happen unless people gain awareness and rattle their cages. It is a fight between the people, and a corrupt industry which puts up a wall of money in order to keep the rules as they are:

Perhaps with the development of AI, some better form of Trial Law Judgements will be available.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by transmitterdan

Here is one:
https://www.npr.org/2019/09/04/75739...=1568297390957
But I am skeptical now about the “fog of war” confusing reporters, a few thousand miles away, between 911 and VHF distress call to USCG LA. Unless there is a 911 recording with verified caller ID I would say that the reporting is suspect. The original report I read about 911 call the day of the fire has been taken down. Perhaps because it was inaccurate.

Indeed.
“... KING (interviewer): OK. As you know, Ms. Homendy (investigator), there was a 911 distress call that was made from the boat. And in it, the Coast Guard can be heard asking - and I'm quoting here - "and there's no escape hatch for any of the people on board?" - asking that of the passenger. Is that something that's of concern to you?...”
That conversation was the USCG side of a VHF MAYDAY transmission, between USCG and a Crew Member (Captain).
➥ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...pt/2194064001/

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by Training Wheels

Unless they have put in new cell towers on Santa Cruz in the last few years, I’d be surprised if there is cell coverage there.

I hope the report is false, but phones with ATT usually have reception there, t-mobile, no.

[Training Wheels]

Haven’t been there in 3 years!

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Perhaps with the development of AI, some better form of Trial Law Judgements will be available.

Maybe, but I really don't think the process is the issue. Our process works very well, even the jury system.



The problem is the jurisprudence -- the substance of the law. It is the law which allows you to sue anyone for anything, creating the tort lottery system. The law has drifted by precedent and needs to be corrected by legislation.


I used to be involved with this professionally but haven't lived in the U.S. since 1991 so have drifted away from it.

[transmitterdan]

Looks like they identified some problems already:

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/n...re/2297964001/

[Hardhead]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Maybe, but I really don't think the process is the issue. Our process works very well, even the jury system.

Huh? That seems to completely contradict your prior assessments. No matter, it's obviously a sore issue with you, so it's good to vent it out. If you are qualified, the judiciary is the place for a man of your talents. Armchair quarterbacking is for amateurs.

[Hardhead]

I think the best thing to do - is wait for the full facts to be known. It's a horrific thing that occurred. Being burned alive is not the way anyone expects to die, or, their families ever expect. Hopefully, some preventable cause can be found. If that's the case, it may help prevent it from happening again. It may not have been a preventable cause. If that's the case, the tragedy is the same.