Buying Leopard Ex-charter: What do I spend my $ on first?

[bergmd]

@alctel I am not considering a smaller boat. I would like as much waterline as I can afford. What in your opinion are the major cost differences? The difference between a 40' vs 48? Other than the obvious increase in bottom paint, haul out, and cleaning the hull. My last boat was a 46' Bahia and was not bad at all.

[EngineerRetired]

Originally Posted by bergmd

Thanks everyone. I plan on fixing the important items on the survey. I may post it here if anyone is interested.

Excellent, many of them will probably be top priority as surveyors tend to look at safety items first. (As they should)

[Tellie]

Originally Posted by bergmd

@alctel I am not considering a smaller boat. I would like as much waterline as I can afford. What in your opinion are the major cost differences? The difference between a 40' vs 48? Other than the obvious increase in bottom paint, haul out, and cleaning the hull. My last boat was a 46' Bahia and was not bad at all.

The difference between a 40' and a 48' can be a lot. Prices on boat equipment grow exponentially every two feet or so. What's the difference between a three cylinder Yanmar and a four cylinder perhaps with a turbo. What's the cost difference between a 40 and 48 sail plan and it's stick? These things do make a huge difference. with your budget the difference may be between sailing the thing or it becoming a dock queen.

[alansmith]

Have you looked into the insurance side of the boat? Where the boat can be or not be at certain times of the year? Home port in USA will also impact your overall yearly layout. Where will they allow liveaboards seems to be an increasingly difficult situation we face.

I wish you luck. If you are good with tools and hands on stuff… you got plenty of time… it don’t need to be perfect. It just needs to be sea worthy. Many a skipper has bit off more than he can chew when it comes to big boats and paid a hefty penalty trying to divest himself of said mistake. Think this through and do what rings your bells.

[johnnyH]

I respectfully submit that there is a lot of advice that makes me shake my head. Negotiate hard and buy as much boat as you can afford, always remembering that even if you sell it at the same price you bought it for you are going to take a 10% loss because of the broker's fee. Be as comfortable as you can be instead of being cramped in a sardine size boat. The more waterline you have the better it will sail . There will be more comfort and equipment and space to store provisions to make life comfortable. Other than dock fees, insurance and perhaps a little more paint for a bottom job there is not an appreciable difference with equipment cost. One thing that I will suggest is dont go any wider than a 25 foot beam because finding a boat yard with the equipment needed for a a haul out might more challenging to find. Enjoy your boat

[capn_billl]

Originally Posted by bergmd

I'm buying a Leopard 48 ex charter and will have a limited budget to make it a full time live aboard. I want to make it blue-water capable but where do I start? My plan was to sail it to the US to avoid shipping costs of batteries, solar panels, etc. I plan on doing all the installations myself with a budget of 10-15k.

What are the necessity items that need to be purchased and in what order? Obviously a dinghy first. It has a generator that will need replacing soon.

Spares?
Bigger Anchor?
Tools?
Watermaker?
Electronics?


Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

I just did this last year with a phaseout Leopard 44.

$30k up front to fix survey issues, and additional issues I found that the surveyor missed.

Spares, YES.
Electronics - You will want a good MFD, Wind, depth, speed, GPS, Radar, etc... (to replace the whole kit cost me around $5k, but I didn't skimp. $3K would have done it with basics.
Bigger anchor? NO, the original 30lb plow is more than sufficient for MY needs. Thinking about getting a new Mantis, or other high tech, but the one I have works great.
Watermaker? On my to do list. Onboard water tanks are plenty until we do an Atlantic crossing, and even then if we ration. (Currently use water like we're on shore, and run out in 2.5 weeks, but have lasted as much as a month).
Solar cells the ones it came with were barely enough even with one hour of generator per day.

Generator - YES, I found life very hard when it crapped out. batteries died in two days, solar couldn't keep up.

Stopped halfway to delivery destination to retrofit additional items that failed in route, (not found in survey).

Batteries, generator, solar panels, water pump, bilge pump, rudder tubes.

ADDITIONAL $20k Bringing total to $50K.

Boats was $100k off of the next closest boat, and available immediately, and there is definitely a shortage of catamarans on the market.

I'm about to drop ANOTHER $8-10K on shipyard for annual maintenance, and bottom job a year later after a year of active cruising.

I ended up replacing the standing rigging, (furler broken, stress marks on shrouds, bent chainplate, bent lifeline post, refiberglassing some dock "rash")

Generator was used hard, and put away wet, required new exhaust elbow, cooling pump, (after frying several impellors), and new raw water pump.

New filters, belts, hose clamps everywhere on the boat. Not only were they, old, but also cheap.

And check engine compartments thoroughly for debris. a piece of cable cover came loose, and jammed the float on a bilge pump.

Oh by the way, carry spare fuses, They are the mini BUss fuses that are hard to find, (not the regular ones).

Spare 1/2 inch raw water pump. I ended up using a bait tank pump, and adaptor.

Check the shower drain hoses, every one on my boat had chaffed, and were leaking.

AND last, but not least toilet rebuild kits, plan on replacing them ALL.
Badly abused quietflush were on mine, and every toilet failed during delivery.

Batteries, plan on new ones, I spend $3k on AGM's, I'm not rich enough for lithium's.


But a decent boat, and I'm very happy with the results, even my wife enjoys it now, which makes it all worthwhile.

A rule of thumb is maintenance is 10% of the boats value per year.

First year I exceeded that, but this year, and next year should be a third of that.

The stock sails that came with it were serviceable, and adequate. (New Jib $6K for basic, Main more than $12K is the lowest bid so far).

Ropes for running rigging were surprisingly expensive. I've been replacing them with climbing Dacron for less than half the price. (same test load, UV stabilized) for sheets since I can replace as they fail)

West Marine price for Main Halyard 200ft (up 70ft, down 70ft, then to cockpit), $1,063.00 + tax.

That is on a Leopard 44.

Add a couple hundred more each for a L48

Not a lot as far as boat bucks, but don't forget this expense. Spinnaker, Jib, Main, plus 8 sheets, Boom topping lift, Jibe preventer, and extra to get back to cockpit 20ft back, it all adds up. So far I've spent more on rope than the entire cost of my first sailboat.

Good luck, but double or triple your cost to fix up.

$15K simply isn't enough for a above 40ft boat, even if it is in "perfect" condition.

Oh, and have a rigger check ALL the rigging. hard to see damage under furler, and chaff tubes on shrouds. You can bet a charter tourist hit the shrouds with the boom, at least once.

[Laxlife]

Find an experienced, professional Surveyor and pay the $800-1,000 fee for a full survey. Hopefully they will allow you to accompany them through the boat during their inspection. Bring a camera, voice recorder of some type (phone app) and paper and pen to fully document every nugget of wisdom relayed by the Surveyor. No doubt your insurance will require a survey so let this be the starting point in planning your refit.

[save1960]

Did you get the boat thouroughly surveyed ? Especially the overall structure ? Bulkheads ? Hulls ? Fiber ? Those BVI boats went through major hurricanes and many of them have structural problems (excess flexing, delamination, osmosis,....) that have been patched up for a quick sale.
You don't want to find that out when you will be in the middle of the ocean !!

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by bergmd

I'm buying a Leopard 48 ex charter and will have a limited budget to make it a full time live aboard. I want to make it blue-water capable but where do I start? My plan was to sail it to the US to avoid shipping costs of batteries, solar panels, etc. I plan on doing all the installations myself with a budget of 10-15k.

What are the necessity items that need to be purchased and in what order? Obviously a dinghy first. It has a generator that will need replacing soon.

Spares?
Bigger Anchor?
Tools?
Watermaker?
Electronics?


Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

Buy a 40 or 42ft, you cannot afford a 48 out of charter. Calculate min 50k for urgent repairs and refits all done by yourself. And it’s not about waterlength, it’s about useable room. A 40-42ft Leo will do it and you can breath and enjoy instead of creeping at the border of bankcrupcy...
It’s hard but that’s the truth

[Wolf Pack 2]

First, only buy American lithium’s with a descent warranty like Relion. I have the 38 leopard with 600 AH, you may look at 900 ah at that size, Victron energy inverter and solar, lithium’s must be charged properly, solar 1200 ah minimum. If you see a company called electromaxx, run away! Their lithium batteries lasted 3 months. Wayermaker can wait until you’re actually ready to live off grid.

[timb7734]

A different boat.

[sv Stella Maris]

...we spent about $60k doing 95% of the work ourselves turning a 2 year old perfect shape day charter use only 2016 production sailing catamaran into a full time ocean capable cruiser (in 2018/2019)(no diesel genset or aircon or tv). All necessary functional equipment for a large family full time.

I hate this term ‘blue water’ cruiser. Production cats are NOT sustainable ‘blue water’ boats, period...most boats are NOT. Yes, you can cross an ocean in a bathtub. Survival and sustaining are two different beasts.

Don’t buy a darn thing until you’ve lived aboard a while. Then sleep on most purchases for a few months !

[wing15601]

Start a video series on youtube. The guys doing that have patrons who donate tools, equipment and most importantly $.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by wing15601

Start a video series on youtube. The guys doing that have patrons who donate tools, equipment and most importantly $.

sure the patrons are desperately waiting for another sailor to throw money and equipment after you....

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by sv Stella Maris

..
Don’t buy a darn thing until you’ve lived aboard a while. Then sleep on most purchases for a few months !

Well like this I wouldn't be liveaboard for 2 years. You got to start somewhere and no you don't need 65k for a 40ft cat, for a 48ft yes easyly.