Biggest surprises from your first year or two of cruising

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

I think this is great advice and worth repeating.

People new to boating are surprised that "timing" makes a huge difference in the enjoyment level.

If you are an over thinker and schedule too rigidly for a journey, you become guilty of rationalizing poor weather windows as opposed to taking advantages of good ones and being patient enough to enjoy where you happen to be.

Sounds obvious, but your goal is not measured in miles , but in smiles

It's essential to understand that all plans are "subject to conditions", and that all plans have to be adjusted where necessary. Sometimes plans even have to be cancelled because the weather window is not acceptable.



However, it can't always be made so easy as "never have any schedule when cruising", and sometimes patience and flexibility isn't enough. Because sometimes you need to get somewhere and you have to juggle marginal weather windows and the risk that next week will be even worse.


This is especially true in higher latitudes where there may be months between balmy F4's. If you need to get out of the way of ice, or get to a safe haven before the season of really bad weather starts, or get across the North Sea, you can't always measure the results in "smiles" -- sometimes only miles will do.


This is also where being confident in being able to handle strong weather, and having a good strong boat you can trust, can be crucially important.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

The biggest surprise for me was the shock of understanding the rate at which systems wear out and need constant upgrading and replacing and repairing, on a complex cruising boat which is used intensively.

I bought my boat 10 years ago, when she was 8 years old and apparently in pristine condition, well taken care of, and little used, with only 160 hours on the generator and 830 hours on the main. I thought I should be able to go for years without any major replacements.

And I was very wrong about that. A lot of systems go out of condition just on the basis of time, not hours of use, and seem to go out much faster when they suddenly start to be used intensively after standing idle for years.

So as it turns out, a cruising boat is not indeed like a car -- which just works for a certain number of miles or years, then gets sold on and you buy another one, without investing much in between. A cruising boat is more like a helicopter -- a bunch of parts flying in formation, every one of them with its own separate maintenance schedule and useful life.

If you really want to understand what it takes in terms of time and money, then you should do a maintenance and amortization schedule for every major system on the boat. You're not far off if you expect to replace one major system every year, once the boat is 10 years old more or less. And regular investment into upgrading and replacing systems is really essential to avoid a downward spiral in condition. So for me it was electronics one year ($20k -- kaching), standing rigging the next ($15k -- kaching), then sails ($50k -- ouch!), then refinishing the soles, then overhauling the steering and autopilot, then replacing the calorifier, then replacing the charger/inverter, replacing all of the sea cocks, then replacing the central heating furnace, then replacing the dinghy and motor, then stripping the keel to bare lead and refininishing, and in the not too distant future there will be replacement of all cockpit canvas (at least $10k), regalvanizing chain and anchor, replacing the teak rail (just got a bid for £20 000 -- labor only!), replacing refrigeration, and it goes on and on and on.

You can really screw up your cruising life if you underestimate this -- the cost of regular capital replacements and upgrades. Unless you start off with a practically new boat and plan to just let it run down for a limited number of years when you're on a time-limited cruise, you need to have a capital investment program just like you would have with a building. Every day which goes by, and every mile you sail, things are wearing out.

This is one way of sailing long distance but there are other ways as well that don't cost quite so much.

Attached is a picture of Boat Alexandria. This guy has sailed this boat damn near all the way around the world. His main looks to be an Old Catalina 27 Main which is too tall for his mast. I think he has 600 watts of solar mostly not mounted that he uses when at anchor.

The point is there are many ways to sail long distance without breaking the bank.

It's amazing how some folks can spend many thousands of dollars in the process while others spend around what it would cost for a decent used car

Some of this has to do with boat size of course and method of propulsion ...if any besides the sails

Even this boat could be made to look much better with a bit of paint and maybe $800.00 worth of used sails that fit

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by thomm225

This is one way of sailing long distance but there are other ways as well that don't cost quite so much.

Attached is a picture of Boat Alexandria. This guy has sailed this boat damn near all the way around the world. His main looks to be an Old Catalina 27 Main which is too tall for his mast. I think he has 600 watts of solar mostly not mounted that he uses when at anchor.

The point is there are many ways to sail long distance without breaking the bank.

It's amazing how some folks can spend many thousands of dollars in the process while others spend around what it would cost for a decent used car

Some of this has to do with boat size of course and method of propulsion ...if any besides the sails

Even this boat could be made to look much better with a bit of paint and maybe $800.00 worth of used sails that fit

Yes, of course. A system you don't have, is a system you will never have to repair

[Pelagic]

I think one can go thru Life doing the absolute minimum to get by..... but where is the fun and pride in that ?

Nobody really voices it, many refuse to admit it.....
but we all care how others (especially our own peer group) perceive us.

Whenever someone takes an extreme approach to be a spendthrift minimalist it tells me they have little pride in themselves.
That's ok, but I'm really not interested in getting to know them

[Sojourner]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

I think one can go thru Life doing the absolute minimum to get by..... but where is the fun and pride in that ?

Nobody really voices it, many refuse to admit it.....
but we all care how others (especially our own peer group) perceive us.

Whenever someone takes an extreme approach to be a spendthrift minimalist it tells me they have little pride in themselves.
That's ok, but I'm really not interested in getting to know them

You know, coming from an old hippie community/background, I can tell ya that for many of them, their minimalism IS their source of pride: how little they can get by with, how little their footprint on the earth is, etc. Even for me, the weeks when I use very little of anything--energy, canned stores instead of expensive foods, money--make me unreasonably happy (does NOT include booze or smokes ). The don't use much, don't need much crowd is happiest when they don't got, and don't need, but are still smiling harder than a lot of folks who are millionaires...

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

I think one can go thru Life doing the absolute minimum to get by..... but where is the fun and pride in that ?

Nobody really voices it, many refuse to admit it.....
but we all care how others (especially our own peer group) perceive us.

Whenever someone takes an extreme approach to be a spendthrift minimalist it tells me they have little pride in themselves.
That's ok, but I'm really not interested in getting to know them

Many people with certain goals in mind really do not care how others perceive them They are whole enough as people not to let that small thing affect they way they live

The pride and the fun comes from getting by with the minimum amount and wasting little from food to boat parts. The boat in the picture I posted above shows his Bruce Anchor for example which he's used on his voyages so no need for a new gen anchor even though some say you can't anchor without one even though it was done for years before the new gen anchors came along

(And) as for as the boat, coming up with unique ways to save money on parts and getting the most out of what is there even if you have the money available to spend. Why over pay for what isn't needed or what can be found elsewhere cheaper especially if you have to time to search for it

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

That's ok, but I'm really not interested in getting to know them

But but, how are they going to explain your evil wasteful ways to you in order to guide to the light of "frugalness".

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

But but, how are they going to explain your evil wasteful ways to you in order to guide to the light of "frugalness".

Lol, I was born and grew up in Scotland, so McFrugal is my clan.
....Luckily, my mother was Greek who taught me how to have a good time and that happiness was not a Sin[emoji1]

Seriously
I knew my comment would spark some backlash, but up until I retired, my footprint was so small I could fit all my belongings into a rented car.
I also spent time in the 70‘s in a minimalist commune, but noticed that when stoned, everybody's thoughts turned back to their favorite luxury (usually some kind of food)

Now that I'm back to being a liveaboard, whatever lifestyle the boat beside me chooses, is there business, but if extreme.... Be it a tramper or a Superyacht, odds are we have little in common

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by Mediator

1) Like others have said, the amount of time spent on boat maintenance...... None of those things were particularly expensive because we dealt with them ourselves, but it takes time out of the day

Indeed, spent 2 days just putting a fridge kit into a cool box, mainly down to adding all the extra insulation. 2.5 days fitting diesel air heating, needed GRP work to mount the heater on. 2 days spent fitting a simple wheel auto pilot, several hours spent just reading the manuals and planning the installation.

I think one of the hard things maintenance wise is sticking to a 'keep it simple' approach, because I know that in the future, I will probably be doing it again. The fridge is now 10 years old

Whilst i like being frugal and e bay used regularly for stuff, there are some things it may be better just to buy new. The anchor and chain was one example, the wheel pilot another, I just want them to work.

[thomm225]

I think as far as boats are concerned, it's much more fun to own an older boat that's in good shape.

You can then make the changes/repairs as you see fit. Some think they have to upgrade electronics, anchors, replace thruhulls and rigging etc whereas others inspect these things and go sailing. I've recently started replacing a few more things on my boat after owning and sailing it for 8 years, but I'm still using the PO's anchors and rode, docklines, electronics, rigging and original thruhulls

When you buy a new boat, there's not a lot to do except worry about that first scratch on your gelcoat which for me and my new boats didn't take long since I raced them ......and the starting lines were sometimes crowded

Also some enjoy being resourceful in the ways they keep the old boat going. My own boat has looked pretty bad at times over the past 8 years with peeling topside paint and bare wood below but the bottom had fresh paint, the autopilot worked great, sails were near new, and I had internet

It's all about your priorities which for me do not include shining brightwork

I've seen others go about long distance cruising in a similar way and make their repairs as they go

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

I think one can go thru Life doing the absolute minimum to get by..... but where is the fun and pride in that ?

Nobody really voices it, many refuse to admit it.....
but we all care how others (especially our own peer group) perceive us.

Whenever someone takes an extreme approach to be a spendthrift minimalist it tells me they have little pride in themselves.
That's ok, but I'm really not interested in getting to know them

Pelagic.. Sorry mate I have to disagree here..
Its like saying if you dont shop at Dulce & Gabana or Gucci.. do not wear Nike's latest and greatest but instead shop in Primark and Decathalon one has no pride in oneself..
Measuring personal pride by the amount of money, gadgets and Louis Vitton suits in ones wardrobe is actually a measurement of vanity to me..
I am a believer in the KISS type of sailing and I have plenty of personal pride in myself and my boats.. I have pride in the fact I cross oceans solo or just one other in boats from 26ft to 64ft using the minimum I can get away with.
I am clean, wash and press my own clothes, keep my boat clean and orderly and do the same when on OP's boats..
Theres slobs on small boats and slobs on boats as big and complex as yours..
Lets not confuse personal arrogance with personal pride and self respect.
As to not getting to know me..???
Thats their loss not mine..!!!
My Personal arrogance..

[wolfgal]

Excellent thread Jammer, great input here, following with interest!



wolfgal

[Mike OReilly]

My approach to boat systems are driven by a few principles. First off, know thyself, and know what you need. Too many of us just go along with the pack (to keep the approval of our “peer group” ). Listen to others, but filter advice through your own actual needs, not what others think you need.

For me, I try and go with boat systems and tools that are either highly reliable, OR ones I can maintain and repair given my own limited skills and resources. This is why I favour manual over electric, and simple over complex.

Like I said, no big surprises from the boat/lifestyle side of things — at least no so far .

[gjordan]

I would not say that having a minimalist boat boat means you have no pride. There is certainly pride in doing things (like long passages) that the vast majority of sailors will never do (many have no desire, which is fine) and doing it in a good seaman like fashion. I learned in a very minimalist boat that Tahiti looked the same from the cockpit of a small simple boat as it did from the cockpit of the 50 footer anchored near by. I also went back to my old marina a few years after my first cruise and found many of the same boats and people still getting ready to go , but needing that next system or piece of gear to feel safe. It was a rather nice feeling (maybe pride) to know that my simple boat had done for me, what their shiny money pits might never do for them. After many years and many different boats, I would not want to go back to that simple of a boat, and the boat I am outfitting now has a reasonable amount of creature comforts, but will be set up so that in the event of a complete electrical failure I can still function with only minor inconvenience. A job well done seems to give more pride than a job waiting for everything to be perfect, but may never get done. Just another opinion. Grant.

[Tayana42]

Another thing I’ve learned in my various experiences sailing is that the beauty of the places we visit, the friendship of the people we meet and the wonders of the natural world are a joy to us whether we are on a 24’ with an Seagull outboard motor or a 42’ boat that is comparatively systems rich. Although I appreciate the less is more philosophy of simple boats, I have found that at my age I prefer being more comfortable. But I love boats and people who sail them. Whatever floats your boat.