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**Don C L** · 09-07-2015, 10:13

Personally, though I like a furling genoa when it works, I prefer hank-on (I know, old school.) A furling main does not appeal to me, I can imagine huge problems with that. But even though a furled sail is probably not going to have the ideal shape, you must reef (furl) to maintain a fairly consistent strain on the rigging. If you leave too much cloth up relative to wind speed, obviously you are overpowering your whole rig. Your friend is a bit mixed up IMO.

bmz · 09-07-2015, 10:57

I think the friend is primarily concerned with furling under load. Inasmuch as a furling headsail is furled from the base only, it puts a twist torque on the extrusion as it's being furled. In theory this could break the extrusion. The answer to this is to luff the headsail somewhat while furling.

Sailmonkey · 09-07-2015, 11:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmz

I think the friend is primarily concerned with furling under load. Inasmuch as a furling headsail is furled from the base only, it puts a twist torque on the extrusion as it's being furled. In theory this could break the extrusion. The answer to this is to luff the headsail somewhat while furling.

Or turn deep.....makes a neater roll too!

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evbeck · 09-07-2015, 11:38

Can't reef and deal with weather otherwise - so it would either be poles or full canvas under his view. I have not seen furlers not intended for reefing effect.

**Don C L** · 09-07-2015, 12:19

Perhaps your friend is referring to reefing/furling too late. As most with furling headsails have seen, if the whole genoa is out in too much wind, it can be a mess trying to get it in neatly and the top can be left flogging while the foot is all rolled up. In THAT case I'd probably take the whole thing down.

Sailmonkey · 09-07-2015, 12:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by evbeck

Can't reef and deal with weather otherwise - so it would either be poles or full canvas under his view. I have not seen furlers not intended for reefing effect.

20 years ago there were lots of furlers not built for reefing. The only ones I can think of now are for light air sails

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drpaoletta · 09-07-2015, 12:45

I roller reef my 135 Genoa all the time, but I really don't like the shape when it's furled more than 50%...So I'm going to buy a smaller headsail for use during the windy summer season here in SF.

Hey FamilyVan - Happens all the time in SF Bay, but you obviously have your priorities straight. I get the same crap, but I single-hand and know that as soon as I clear the Bay Bridge and head into the "slot" near Alcatraz that barely adequate 10 Kt on the beam will shoot up to 20+ in a heart beat. It's more important to have fun/be safe/control your boat than compete with the hot-shots. I hate breaking stuff too!

GrahamHO · 09-07-2015, 14:14

There is a very UNLIKELY scenario that your friend may be confused by. If a genoa is made of lightweight cloth and later adapted to a furler, the cloth may not stand up to stronger winds when it's reefed partway. However his Beneteau will undoubtably have a genoa with a cloth weight designed to be reefed on his furler. Depending on the cut of the genoa the sheet fairlead should also be moved forward on its track when reefing. If your friend is still confused he could talk to a sailmaker, though the forum and your advise is all he needs.

parito · 09-07-2015, 14:56

Thanks everyone for the replies.

The consensus is clear then.

I just want to clarify that the concern of his was that under strong wind conditions in partially furled headsail the wind would try to unfurl the sail - the twisting motion onto the aliuminium pole would eventually break it.

(Actually I had furling break on another yacht just above the roller drum - the aluminium tube split into two. This is why a small part inside of me somewhat believed that he might be at least partially right, although I new everyone is reefing this way).

**Don C L** · 09-07-2015, 15:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by parito

Thanks everyone for the replies.

The consensus is clear then.

I just want to clarify that the concern of his was that under strong wind conditions in partially furled headsail the wind would try to unfurl the sail - the twisting motion onto the aliuminium pole would eventually break it.

(Actually I had furling break on another yacht just above the roller drum - the aluminium tube split into two. This is why a small part inside of me somewhat believed that he might be at least partially right, although I new everyone is reefing this way).

OK I can see that logic, but modern roller furling is fairly stout. You might be able to go forward and sight up the forestay while it is reefed to see if there is any twist occurring, though the wrapped sail will probably obscure it, or just watch the luff edge closely to see if it is turning/moving in and out. And if there is a lot then, yes, I think it would likely fail down by the drum. In that case it probably had too much sail out for the wind, on a regular basis over some time I'd guess. Still, the point remains that you must reef by furling.

FamilyVan · 09-07-2015, 15:39

Yes, it will to unfurl on you a bit which can be annoying to deal with. The trick here is you need to try to make sure you have little enough sail out for the conditions- if that makes sense.

There are advantages (as well as disadvantages) to regular handed on sails.

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**Don C L** · 09-07-2015, 16:13

I guess there aren't too many of us still hanking on headsails, eh?

**Jim Cate** · 09-07-2015, 16:26

Observed fact: I have yet to see a jib furler fail from torsion when the joiners between the sections are installed correctly. The foil sections are quite robust, even on the less expensive units. Failures that I have seen are usually due to strikes from poles causing kinks in the foil, poor installation or most likely, halyard wrap at the top. Bearing failure resulting in poor furling is also common, but is often due to lack of maintenance.

Personally I am not a fan of reefing a roller genoa for heavy conditions, not because of worry about foil failure, but due to shape failure if the genoa is made of light enough material to be a good light air sail. Even with a padded luff the shape deteriorates when rolled up much, and if the cloth is light, permanent stretching is a worry.
Thus the idea of a roller furled genoa plus a sail on an inner stay for stronger winds has much appeal, and we have found it a good compromise.

Cheers,

Jim

svTOTEM · 09-07-2015, 21:54

Roller furling used to be called "roller failing"for a reason. It's come a long way though. Jim states the most common issuesnicely. I also know of several cases of broken furling lines with partiallyfurled sails.

If ingood order furling hardware shouldn't be a problem partially furling sails. Thesails themselves though are another story. Jim and a few others mention thelighter material of larger sails will stretch if partially furled and used inhigher winds. This is true for Dacron of any weight because partially furlingincreases cloth bias loading (load at an angle to the direction of yarnbundles). It doesn't take so much bias load to reach fiber yield point, meaningpermanent distortion. Oversized head and tack patches help reducethis issue, but by no means solve it.

Radial sails have better yarn orientation and stabilityfrom diagonal yarns, so are arguably handle partial furling better. They canhave other qualities that make them less desirable for furling though: such asmildew problems on radial laminate sails or long vertical seams that cansnag/wear/chafe on furling mains going in/out of the mast slot.

Further, a partially furled headsail has lousy shape. Adding bulk in theluff, such as foam, helps a little, but… And unless you move the sheet leadwhen partially furled, sail trim is awful. The car must go forward or the upperleach is under tensioned, causing more bias loading, and wear/tear if luffing.Lastly, when furling the center of effort on the sail moves higher up. If thewind is on the beam or forward, higher center of effort becomes greater heelingforce. Yes, there is less sail area, so less sail/rig load, but it is in aworse place.

I understand the practical convenience of partiallyfurling, but with it distorted sail shape and perhaps a shorter lifespan.Everything is a compromise. I’d partially furl if really needed, but haven’tother than testing. Other sail combinations work well on Totem.