Anchoring Debate in Florida Continues

[Phantoms]

[QUOTE=tomfl;1623821]

Originally Posted by Scott Berg

This is basically the response to my original question.

Problem I have with the 40 to 60 feet stand off is my boat frequently moves more than that when I am at anchor due to wind and current. Not to mention anchor dragging. What happens if an anchored boat starts off 40 feet away and then the wind or current shifts or the anchor drags and it goes inside the 40 feet, or worse yet drags into the $US1,000,000 70 footer at the dock.

As I have posted many times before there are plenty of places to anchor in Florida where you will have beautiful natural views often times with no other boats in sight. But these places are not so much on the East coast near cities with dinghy docks and access to showers, water, stores, whatever. They are in the Keys West of Key West or Everglades or lots of places on the West coast (I know there are some restrictions on the West coast).

The places looking to impose anchoring restrictions are places that are simply too crowded. Not just too many boats, but too many people on shore as well.

Look at how many anchoring threads there here where folks are griping about being anchored in a remote harbor and someone comes in and tries to anchor too close to them.

Is anyone seriously saying it is OK to anchor 40 feet from another boat.

I believe that if a anchoring distance law is set, that it will not be from your anchor, but from your swing circle. Swing inside the limit and you are breaking the law/ordinance. This is why I feel the suggested 300ft is absurd.

[tomfl]

[QUOTE=Phantoms;1624344]

Originally Posted by tomfl

I believe that if a anchoring distance law is set, that it will not be from your anchor, but from your swing circle. Swing inside the limit and you are breaking the law/ordinance. This is why I feel the suggested 300ft is absurd.

On a recent trip to DT I anchored several times. I would bet that with one exception every boat in the anchorage was well over 300ft from me, swing included. My buddy boat was probably the closest and it was not within 300 feet from me.

Once in the DT what looked like a 25ft Wellcraft did pull up probably 75 feet from me and throw out what looked like a 10 pound Danforth with no chain at all. Normally I am not in favor of tactical nukes but in this case I would make an exception.

What your side of the debate seems to want to ignore is that there are simply too many folks trying to anchor in too small a space.

[smj]

[QUOTE=tomfl;1624351]

Originally Posted by Phantoms

On a recent trip to DT I anchored several times. I would bet that with one exception every boat in the anchorage was well over 300ft from me, swing included. My buddy boat was probably the closest and it was not within 300 feet from me.

Once in the DT what looked like a 25ft Wellcraft did pull up probably 75 feet from me and throw out what looked like a 10 pound Danforth with no chain at all. Normally I am not in favor of tactical nukes but in this case I would make an exception.

What your side of the debate seems to want to ignore is that there are simply too many folks trying to anchor in too small a space.

I can't figure out where in Florida the anchoring is so tight. Maybe Lake Sylvia in Ft. Lauderdale during season but other than that.....
It was pretty common practice in Boot Key to anchor 20' of someone's bow before the moorings. But then again Boot Key would probably hold over 100 more boats then than now.

[tomfl]

[QUOTE=smj;1624364]

Originally Posted by tomfl

I can't figure out where in Florida the anchoring is so tight. Maybe Lake Sylvia in Ft. Lauderdale during season but other than that.....
It was pretty common practice in Boot Key to anchor 20' of someone's bow before the moorings. But then again Boot Key would probably hold over 100 more boats then than now.

Check out the google maps pix around Coconut Grove Sailing Club.

[smj]

[QUOTE=tomfl;1624377]

Originally Posted by smj

Check out the google maps pix around Coconut Grove Sailing Club.

Those are all moorings. You can anchor to the north or south of Dinner Key and Coconut Grove moorings but the anchorage isn't crowded.


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[dannc]

Originally Posted by Captain Bill

My point is that cities and counties and states do provide low cost alternatives in the form of parks with campgrounds to expensive private luxury RV parks. ...

In NC, there are also places you can park your RV overnight for free. Not sure one would really want to park overnight in some of the places I looked at but they are there, they are free, and people do use them.

I think the boater vs RV is a very good comparison by the way.

Later,
Dan

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by dannc

............. I think the boater vs RV is a very good comparison by the way. ............

And now we are getting somewhere. Various governments regulate where you can and cannot park RVs and how long they can be parked. They are not obligated to provide a free parking area for overnight or long term RV parking. Why would anchored boats be any different?

I think the real problem is not cruisers who spend a night or two and move on, I think it's the folks living on an anchored, often dirty and cluttered boat for months or years. Folks who are most likely dumping their waste and sewage in the water when nobody is looking and folks who may end up abandoning the worthless boat for others to either look forever at or pay to remove.

[biker6977]

My issue is that I am tired of government oversight and strangle hold on ALL aspects of our life- even where not needed, wanted and of times makes things worse.
Give a mouse a cookie...as the saying goes...give the government an inch and they take the land and water too. Anything to get more money and or exert control they will do. Would we need RV parks if we were allowed to camp on public land free? After all WE have already paid for it. If you want dumpsites and power go somewhere and pay- if you don't then public lands should be available since they are after all PUBLIC land. If you are offended by derelict RV or boats is that not YOUR problem? I'm sick of people being "offended" over every stinking thing, suck it up buttercup and quit trying to push your beliefs on everyone else- which you find ok but don't want theirs pushed on you. I'm sorry but isn't it time that government should get the heck out of every area of our life? Do we really need to be told where to anchor a boat? Granted- common sense says stay the heck out of shipping lanes, channels etc. but really- must they control everything???

[tomfl]

[QUOTE=smj;1624378]

Originally Posted by tomfl

Those are all moorings. You can anchor to the north or south of Dinner Key and Coconut Grove moorings but the anchorage isn't crowded.


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Looks a lot different than when I was sailing there in high school. And that bottom is not the best holding.

Compared to places West of Key West it is crowded in my opinion.

[cpa]

Originally Posted by rwidman

I don't think anyone is trying to restrict the public's access to public areas (the water), I think they are trying to prevent people from living on it.

Just like a public park, you're welcome to visit, play ball, walk, etc., but you can't set up a tent and live there for a month.

A logical balance would be to allow anchoring for a set period of time in populated areas, perhaps 72 hours, then you must move on. Without a limit, some places become dumping grounds for derelict boats and homeless people. That hurts everyone,

I agree that the derelict boats and squatters are a huge issue in Florida. I believe we already have laws on the books that deal with this nuisance that should actually be enforced. To me this is a separate issue. for My experience dealing with Florida waterfront homeowners over the past 25 years indicates to me that there is a huge issue with even short term anchored boats. I have been harassed by homeowners and various marine patrols visiting me on the behalf of homeowners after a few hours on the hook (Just stopping to scrub the bottom). I have also been harrased and shooed off by a homeowner while operating a small boat at the end of canal. Of course this particular type of waterfront homeowner is probably rare, but obviously there are enough of them to create this stink.

My major problem with time limits is that they could possibly force a boat operator into bad weather or leave with a boat that still need repairs. What about people waiting for a weather window. I don't know just too many variables that leave me uneasy.

On a side note I have also lived aboard and cruised much of the New England region for more than a few years. I never had these issue with marine patrols or home owners. I guess having 6 months a year frozen in ice tends to deter the squatter boat dwellers.

[Group9]

Originally Posted by tomfl

NO.

I have the opinion that rational actors make the decision to maximize their revenue stream and they could care less what my opinion is.

You seem to not grasp the law of supply and demand.

There are plenty of RV parks in the Keys that are impossible to get in during the season. If you try and park an RV overnight many places in the Keys you will get ticketed. I have taken my RV cross country and spent time in many national parks out west. I have also spent the night in Walmart parking lots in many places. Walmart encourages this as they have plenty of space and figure RV owners will buy something in the store. But in Miami and Homestead there are signs prohibiting this and it is enforced by security guards.

Simple Econ 101, when demand outstrips supply prices rise.

Learn it.

Know it.

Live it.

I think on the contrary, it is you who do not understand the law of Political Economics 101. This isn't about supply and demand. This is about people with deep pockets, who don't like what they don't like, and who can pay politicians to introduce laws to make what they don't like, illegal.

And, here is the bad news. They can go back to the well, again and again, until they win. They can lose this fight 100 times in a row, and all it will take to try the 101st time, is a campaign contribution check. Boaters have to win every single time. The condo commandos only have to win once.

So, don't worry about these poor waterfront land owners and condo developers. Eventually, they will get what they want, when the last boat is run out of Florida, and they have cut the last tree down.

Anybody who remembers what Florida was like, and looked like, 50 years ago, knows this is true, and knows where it all ends.

Graft.

Learn it.
Know it.
Live it.

Thank God for hurricanes in the Bahamas, or they would be next.

[avb3]

Originally Posted by soverel

Pigeons do poop alot.

Sent from my HUAWEI-M931 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

I'm going to nominate this for the post of the day.

[tomfl]

Originally Posted by Group9

I think on the contrary, it is you who do not understand the law of Political Economics 101. This isn't about supply and demand. This is about people with deep pockets, who don't like what they don't like, and who can pay politicians to introduce laws to make what they don't like, illegal.

And, here is the bad news. They can go back to the well, again and again, until they win. They can lose this fight 100 times in a row, and all it will take to try the 101st time, is a campaign contribution check. Boaters have to win every single time. The condo commandos only have to win once.

So, don't worry about these poor waterfront land owners and condo developers. Eventually, they will get what they want, when the last boat is run out of Florida, and they have cut the last tree down.

Anybody who remembers what Florida was like, and looked like, 50 years ago, knows this is true, and knows where it all ends.

Graft.

Learn it.
Know it.
Live it.

Thank God for hurricanes in the Bahamas, or they would be next.

Assuming facts not in evidence.

[biker6977]

Originally Posted by tomfl

Assuming facts not in evidence.

Au contraire mon fraire! The evidence is all around you- look at the state of the country, state, county, city and you will see the abuse and money grubbing everywhere.
If only I could decide to just "raise the debt limit" of my family.
Or make my boss pay me more- we are the boss of the government and they are free to make us pay them whatever they want.
Little by little they get it and before we know it we have nothing left.
What was once a great and free nation is now on it's knees with only those in power reaping the rewards.
And we have let it happen with complacency and wanting what WE want without concern for what is right and proper. By not looking beyond ourselves or our land.
I want an unobstructed view of the water so I biatch up a storm and throw a fit- I DESERVE an unobstructed view- I don't care if it's public land!
I want $15 dollars an hour to flip burgers- I DESERVE it! I don't care that this should be a job for high schoolers and college students and not parents to live off of.
I want special treatment becuase I'm a single mom- I DESERVE it! I don't care that I made the choice to have a child I can't take care of, that I made a bad choice of partners or that I never graduated highschool.

Choices people- we need to make good choices and live with the consequences of those choices and our actions. And we need to realize that .......LIFE ISN'T FAIR!

This is just a symptom of the larger issues all over the country.

[biker6977]

And as to too many boats and people- that's becuase the population is growing- so we are going to charge people becuase they were born after the land was plentiful? We are going to make it hard becuase they are here? We are going to punish them becuase some people feel there are too many boats and people- isn't that all relative? Go to Mexico City- you'll see a large amount of people, or Hong Kong- the people there would say there aren't many people in FL- it's all relative.
Time for a paradigm shift.