America’s Cup - ETNZ launches 1st AC75 (new)

[jmh2002]

Originally Posted by wingssail

The size of these boats, the speed that they go, and the height that they fly off the water is astonishing.

...Just imagining that thing going 50 knots, six to ten feet off the water just blows me away.

Me too. Truly astonishing. And being onboard at 50kn would be like standing in a hurricane.

I remember that photo of ETNZ sailing past the Starling dinghies (a local dinghy class here for teenagers, about 9.5ft / 2.9m). It really provides some scale to the situation.

An interesting point is that they are now trying to fly the boats as low as possible.

So a different part of the reason for the skegs on all the boats now is apparently to try and continue the end plate effect down to the water. To prevent high pressure air bleeding through to the low pressure side - just like with the deck sweeping sails - but under the boat itself.

Oh the problems to have, now that your boat flies up in the sky!

[CassidyNZ]

Originally Posted by fxykty

Great rebuttal. There is no doubt that these boats, as all the other before, require extremely well trained and extremely talented people in each of their on-boat roles.

Still I wonder why they continue to have grinders generating hydraulic power to run systems on board. In a TV interview, one of the grinders was asked about his background in sailing - he commented that the very first boat he’d ever sailed on was Te Ahei! Imagine your first sailing experience being at 40 odd knots? But at least four (most likely more) of the crew are not necessarily “extremely talented”, they’re just grunts. Very fit grunts no doubt but grunts nevertheless.

So why human muscle for grinding? Why not a few lithium batteries running a hydraulic pump? Way lighter, more efficient, same contribution to to on-board sailing brains trust. Is it simply tradition? Perhaps the last vestiges of tradition left in these amazing vessels.

[Jim Cate]

So why human muscle for grinding? Why not a few lithium batteries running a hydraulic pump? Way lighter, more efficient, same contribution to to on-board sailing brains trust. Is it simply tradition? Perhaps the last vestiges of tradition left in these amazing vessels.

Oh, please... I surely hope that the AC doesn't go the route of maxi racing, where the boat is dependent upon a large diesel engine running full time to supply the needed hydraulics. That would spoil the small amount of interest remaining in the AC for this sailor.

But these boats are sure fascinating...

Jim

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by CassidyNZ

Still I wonder why they continue to have grinders generating hydraulic power to run systems on board. In a TV interview, one of the grinders was asked about his background in sailing - he commented that the very first boat he’d ever sailed on was Te Ahei! Imagine your first sailing experience being at 40 odd knots? But at least four (most likely more) of the crew are not necessarily “extremely talented”, they’re just grunts. Very fit grunts no doubt but grunts nevertheless.



So why human muscle for grinding? Why not a few lithium batteries running a hydraulic pump? Way lighter, more efficient, same contribution to to on-board sailing brains trust. Is it simply tradition? Perhaps the last vestiges of tradition left in these amazing vessels.

Grunts? Steve Ferguson is the son of a legend and an extremely successfully athlete in his own right. https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/americas...am-new-zealand I’d call him extremely talented.

You don’t think the 12metres didn’t have non-sailing grinders providing the muscle? https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-...html?_amp=true

Stored energy (AKA batteries) should absolutely not be allowed on board. If you allowed that, where would it stop - remote controlled boats?

[CassidyNZ]

Originally Posted by fxykty

Grunts? Steve Ferguson is the son of a legend and an extremely successfully athlete in his own right. https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/americas...am-new-zealand I’d call him extremely talented.

Of course he is extremely talented - so is Pavarotti. But on the AC75, his “talent” is his ability to endlessly grind out hydraulic power. With great respect to Mr Ferguson, given a bunch of bananas, the average chimpanzee can probably be trained to do that. In Ferguson’s own words “I'm here to produce power and use my engine and I feel like I still have plenty left in the tank”. Hence “grunt”.

Originally Posted by fxykty

You don’t think the 12metres didn’t have non-sailing grinders providing the muscle? https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-...html?_amp=true

Once again, of course they had grinders back then - hence my question “Is this just traditional?” - answer: of course it is.

Originally Posted by fxykty

Stored energy (AKA batteries) should absolutely not be allowed on board. If you allowed that, where would it stop - remote controlled boats?

Are you kidding me? You already have remote control all over that boat. Are the sails trimmed by sailors holding sheets? Even in the last Cup, the sail (wing) was controlled by Glen Ashby using what looked like a PlayStation console. Aren’t the foils controlled with micro-processors and other sophisticated electronics? Guaranteed. Or maybe Tuke sits there with a set of hydraulic valves between his knees directing pressure to where he thinks it’s needed? I don’t think so. The inability to successfully harness computers to control the foils in San Francisco back in 2014 is what cost ETNZ the cup back then.

Comment on TV about the new boat was that the inside of the boat is “like crawling around in the ISS, stuff going on all around you”. I’ll bet there isn’t even a mechanical connection between Burling’s wheels and the rudder. C’mon, these boats are so “remote controlled” it’s not even funny. Only qualifier is that the “controllers” are on board. And data about every minute thing they do is relayed back to the chase boats. Oh, and they’re using human beings to provide the energy.

[Pelagic]

Very rarely have I witnessed s transition within a sporting event where we all seem to run out of Superlatives!

Congratulations New Zealand, as the Defender, you have guided us to a whole new level.....
Can hardly wait to see these babies up close!

[CassidyNZ]

This is the first time the defender has sailed in the same waters as the challengers. The YouTube video below makes one wonder if the American Magic crew were busy enough with other stuff to not see what was coming up behind them

Or is it a sign of things to come. Watch particularly from about 25 seconds in.

https://youtu.be/IWDwAAUy6gc

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by CassidyNZ

This is the first time the defender has sailed in the same waters as the challengers. The YouTube video below makes one wonder if the American Magic crew were busy enough with other stuff to not see what was coming up behind them

Or is it a sign of things to come. Watch particularly from about 25 seconds in.

https://youtu.be/IWDwAAUy6gc

Of course we love to see that (I'm rooting for New Zealand, as always) but angles can be deceiving.

1. We can't count our chickens before they hatch
2. Everyone has time to adjust their boat and various parts (sails, foils, crew, etc) before it counts
3. NEVER count out your competitors

[fxykty]

Can’t wait for the real racing to start in a week. I’ll have to watch the first two days online, but we’ll have our boat parked squarely in the spectator zone for the final two days on the weekend.

For those who have watched racing like this (fast boats, relatively short and narrow course) where is the best place to position ourselves? Leeward gate and start, mid leg, or windward gate and finish? We will have a few screens playing the online coverage too.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by fxykty

Can’t wait for the real racing to start in a week. I’ll have to watch the first two days online, but we’ll have our boat parked squarely in the spectator zone for the final two days on the weekend.

For those who have watched racing like this (fast boats, relatively short and narrow course) where is the best place to position ourselves? Leeward gate and start, mid leg, or windward gate and finish? We will have a few screens playing the online coverage too.

Assume the boats will start equally (never a safe assumption) but the real action will occur between the start and the first tack to the boundary. So get on the starboard side of the line a 100 meters up from the extension of the line.

From there you will see the start and who wins the first cross.

After that watch the big screens.

[IslandHopper]

Deleted

[jmh2002]

Originally Posted by wingssail

Of course we love to see that (I'm rooting for New Zealand, as always) but angles can be deceiving.

1. We can't count our chickens before they hatch
2. Everyone has time to adjust their boat and various parts (sails, foils, crew, etc) before it counts
3. NEVER count out your competitors

Agreed with all of the above, but the word on the street is that ETNZ (after only a couple of weeks with their new boat in the water) appears to be able to sail both both higher and faster...

In the case of American Magic, they sailed through to leeward.
In a later sail against Luna Rossa the Italians had a better start but ETNZ were stilll able to live in the unfavourable weather hip position and slowly roll over them all the way to the boundary.

Ineos Team GB missed the first day practice and were towed (very slowly) back to base with some serious damage suggested. They weren't out for day 2 practice today either and nor were American Magic.

American Magic still seem to have some flight control issues resulting in the bow rearing up several times.

The challengers may have just had an awful fright...

ETNZ need to work on their starts. They are slow out of the blocks as they were in Bermuda, but seem to have the pace to make up for it. Burling seems to take a while to get warmed up.

Waiting for the reports to come in from today's practice. I think it was delayed today.

Things are starting to heat up!

[jmh2002]

PS: here is a better video with some good close up and slow motion footage from Tuesday, really demonstrating how spectacular these boats are in full flight:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Sh8L-Ci7aY

[jmh2002]

For those interested in the technical side of things, here is a good recent article:

America’s Cup: Assessing AC75 design
Joop Slooff, author of The Science behind Sailing and Australia II and the America’s Cup; the untold, inside story of The Keel, takes us on a deep dive of the boats to be sailed in the 36th America’s Cup

https://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/2...g-ac75-design/

[jmh2002]

THURSDAY Practice Day 2 Update:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/americ...econd-practice

Team New Zealand controlled the opening exchange. In the second “race” they were in complete control against the Italians and in their third duel, used a burst of startling speed to overhaul them.

This is from the general news. The yachting commentators will publish a more in depth analysis later.