A "Simple" Boat

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Smart man. I cant count how many times I've done projects because I THOUGHT something would be good to have, or because of an anal need for tidiness, or because I read about it in a book wrtitten by someone who sailed long distance.... and assumed it was gospel or made sense for me....
Then when done, and hundreds of dollars later.... I never thought abut it again; the batteries didnt charge any better with those new tidy cables run at neat right angles etc....
Use your boat... figure what's really important... and what it will cost every time you use it... is a good plan...

My boat was in a sad state of affairs when I bought her. I applied knowledge based on what worked on my previous projects. During sea trials, about 95% of it worked well. Now I've done 1600 miles thus far and I have started a new list. Upgrading on my Ham antenna tuner, new sails if I jump the puddle and some other fine tuning. I always raise my eyebrows when someone with little experience on the water and lots of reading, guts an entire boat with more theory than knowledge.

[Shas Cho]

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

It's interesting to note that while the Pardeys proclaim self-sufficiency without an engine, they have been known to catch a tow in a harbor on occasion.

This sounds like a put-down.
Sure, they have accepted tows.
Also, invitations to dinner,
rides in cars, tickets to the theatre...
Self-sufficiency doesn't mean it's wrong to give and take.
It just means they are prepared
to get into harbour under their own power
when that's what is needed.
The Pardeys also carry a small outboard now on Taleisin.
They sailed for many years without one,
and they have nothing to prove to their detractors.

[Shas Cho]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

TNo offence to the Pardeys at all, but if their definition of Cruising was REALLY what it was like out there TODAY....ha ha ha...well there would be a lot more room in the anchorages folks

That sounds like a good thing.
In my opinion, over-crowded anchorages,
over-touristed villages,
the sound of motors blanketing the cries of the birds
are serious obstacles to the pleasure and impact of REAL cruisers/

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by Shas Cho

This sounds like a put-down.
Sure, they have accepted tows.
Also, invitations to dinner,
rides in cars, tickets to the theatre...
Self-sufficiency doesn't mean it's wrong to give and take.
It just means they are prepared
to get into harbour under their own power
when that's what is needed.
The Pardeys also carry a small outboard now on Taleisin.
They sailed for many years without one,
and they have nothing to prove to their detractors.

Call it what you want...In some of their past statements in their books, they state the over dependence of the inboard all the while waiting for a tow. Hypocritical if you ask me.

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by Shas Cho

I can't argue with your success,
but I can't imagine what "extra equipment"
(aside from a convenient head)
would increase my wife's comfort and ease aboard.
My response to her needs is simplicity-
a boat that allows me to focus on our shared sailing experience
rather than spending our time together
repairing and maintaining a large. complex boat.

------

I'm both old and feeble.
The only way I can continue to sail
is by choosing the smallest boat that can meet our needs
and the simplest rig and equipment.
I choose a junk rig,
as either of us can raise a a 400-foot junk sail alone
and reef it in five seconds flat
with nothing more complex than a three-part halyard.

Good weather gear">foul weather gear,
good boat shoes/boots
and a decent mattress
are the only ways I can see
for equipment to enhance our comfort.

Simplicity leads to economy and security and comfort.

- Shas

Shas, Good thing I am very happily married, or I could be halfway to falling in love with you .

[smj]

Originally Posted by Shas Cho

This sounds like a put-down.ing to
Sure, they have accepted tows.
Also, invitations to dinner,
rides in cars, tickets to the theatre...
Self-sufficiency doesn't mean it's wrong to give and take.
It just means they are prepared
to get into harbour under their own power
when that's what is needed.
The Pardeys also carry a small outboard now on Taleisin.
They sailed for many years without one,
and they have nothing to prove to their detractors.

I don't think they accepted tows but rather broadcast on the VHF that they needed a tow. I'm sure there's always a cruiser out there more than willing to stop what they're doing, jump in their dinghy and tow the Pardeys in. Hypocritical? Maybe somewhat.

[hpeer]

Could look ar it the other way round, I've had to be towed in twice, and I have an engine. So however you cut it they a way ahead of me.

[Shas Cho]

Just as you like, Celestialsailor.
Be sure and show us the video of you
sailing past Cape Horn to starboard
in your self-built 29-foot wooden, engineless yacht.
Introduce us to the many friends you have made
in Canada and California and Mexico and Hawai'i a
and England, Spain, Finland, Norway, Moorea,
Poland and Japan and Australia and New Zealand.
I'd like to see photos of your commercial boatyard, too.
You might print them in your dozen published books
or some of the hundreds of published articles
for which they have received thousands of letters
of thanks and appreciation.
The Pardeys have added humour and fun
as well as nautical authenticity
to every gathering I have seen them at.
They sang along with us
and, when we asked, they sang *for* us
and never thought of charging us
for the pleasure they gave.
I have heard of them charging for attendance
at some of their informative lectures,
the dirty hypocrites.
They should live without accepting money for their work.

Lin and Larry epitomise self-sufficiency
as well as generosity, competence,
and an exceptionally happy marriage.
They leave behind them a wake of people
who are glad to have met them.
Cruisers have never had better ambassadors.

As I said before,
they have nothing to prove to their detractors.
Nothing at all.

[Shas Cho]

Originally Posted by smj

I don't think they accepted tows but rather broadcast on the VHF that they needed a tow. I'm sure there's always a cruiser out there more than willing to stop what they're doing, jump in their dinghy and tow the Pardeys in. Hypocritical? Maybe somewhat.

Not that asking for a tow
would be unseamanlike or hypocritical,
but exactly when and where did this happen?
Did you hear the VHF call with your own ears?
Or are you denigrating two fine people
based on dockside (or more accurately, internet) rumours?

As a matter of fact,
there usually *are* cruisers that would be delighted to
1- have a legitimate nautical task to perform,
2- meet such pleasant, famous sailors, and
3- have a story to tell about bringing Taleisin into harbour.

The salient fact here is that
if no tow was available
they would come into harbour under their own power,
even if that meant waiting for daylight or favourable winds.
Self-sufficiency does not mean
doing every single thing by yourself.
It means being ABLE to to what must be done.
The Pardeys have demonstrated
their competence and seamanship
as very few humans have done.

When you personally witness Lin
casting dinghies adrift
to make room for her own dinghy,
please take photos and let us all see them.
But using rumours to publicly disparage those
of greater experience and competence
is as ugly as it is pointless.

- Shas

[Shas Cho]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

Shas, Good thing I am very happily married, or I could be halfway to falling in love with you .

Maybe we can fall in friend, Lass
I'm delighted to hear that your marriage is happy-
cruising with a loved and trusted partner
is both a privilege and an honour.
I can't imagine life aboard an unhappy boat.
I just don't understand why people do it.

Their partnership is one of the things
I most respect in the Pardeys.
Their mutual affection comes through in their writings
and even more clearly when you meet them in person.
Whether in a pub or on board Taleisin
or answering pointed questions in a seminar
(jealousy seems to bring out the worst in some participants),
it is abundantly evident that they respect one another
and that they both feel fortunate
to be sharing this voyage with their chosen shipmate.

Nice to meet ya, Seaworthy Lass!

- Shas

[smj]

Originally Posted by Shas Cho

Not that asking for a tow would be unseamanlike or hypocritical, but exactly when and where did this happen? Did you hear the VHF call with your own ears? Or are you denigrating two fine people based on dockside (or more accurately, internet) rumours? As a matter of fact, there usually *are* cruisers that would be delighted to 1- have a legitimate nautical task to perform, 2- meet such pleasant, famous sailors, and 3- have a story to tell about bringing Taleisin into harbour. The salient fact here is that if no tow was available they would come into harbour under their own power, even if that meant waiting for daylight or favourable winds. Self-sufficiency does not mean doing every single thing by yourself. It means being ABLE to to what must be done. The Pardeys have demonstrated their competence and seamanship as very few humans have done. When you personally witness Lin casting dinghies adrift to make room for her own dinghy, please take photos and let us all see them. But using rumours to publicly disparage those of greater experience and competence is as ugly as it is pointless. - Shas

I appreciate what the Pardeys have done but I don't place them upon a pedestal or worship them as you do.
To cruise without an engine was their choice, not a choice I would make as I consider an engine to be a piece of equipment that helps to make a seaworthy boat. But they did do most of their cruising in an earlier time so maybe an engine wasn't needed back then?
I think the point is if your known to preach self sufficiency then practice it. And to me this would mean don't bother other people by asking for a tow into an anchorage when it was your choice to do without an engine.

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by Shas Cho

Just as you like, Celestialsailor.
Be sure and show us the video of you
sailing past Cape Horn to starboard
in your self-built 29-foot wooden, engineless yacht.
Introduce us to the many friends you have made
in Canada and California and Mexico and Hawai'i a
and England, Spain, Finland, Norway, Moorea,
Poland and Japan and Australia and New Zealand.
I'd like to see photos of your commercial boatyard, too.
You might print them in your dozen published books
or some of the hundreds of published articles
for which they have received thousands of letters
of thanks and appreciation.
The Pardeys have added humour and fun
as well as nautical authenticity
to every gathering I have seen them at.
They sang along with us
and, when we asked, they sang *for* us
and never thought of charging us
for the pleasure they gave.
I have heard of them charging for attendance
at some of their informative lectures,
the dirty hypocrites.
They should live without accepting money for their work.

Lin and Larry epitomise self-sufficiency
as well as generosity, competence,
and an exceptionally happy marriage.
They leave behind them a wake of people
who are glad to have met them.
Cruisers have never had better ambassadors.

As I said before,
they have nothing to prove to their detractors.
Nothing at all.

Please don't turn this into your personal pissing contest. I have a right to bring forth the facts stated by others who have seen them towed in. I didn't spend my life on a 29ft. wood boat...nor do I want to. The have opinions about engines in boats and I am merely bringing to light the hypocrisy of there position. If they are Sages or Gurus for you...fine.

[jkindredpdx]

Originally Posted by Shas Cho

This sounds like a put-down.
Sure, they have accepted tows.
Also, invitations to dinner,
rides in cars, tickets to the theatre...and they have nothing to prove to their detractors.

IMO. The recurring theme in this thread is... "what's right and simple for me, may not get approval from others." The stories of the Pardey's, Hiscocks, Slocum, London, etc. are motivating and entertaining, but we can also have opinions about some of their decisions. As a young man, I thought it would be true and good going to sea with no engine... Today... maybe I don't think it's such a good idea. There is an element of added risk and someone less experienced could lose their life seeking that romantic view of sailing. But that's OK too. It's a personal decision, as is being a hypocrite when it fits.

[nimblemotors]

If my solar powered boat didn't have batteries or an engine, and would only move when the sun was shining, every single one of you would call me a complete idiot.
So wtf is this glory of being an idiot with sails instead?
Why not row around the world, what kind of slacker uses sails, and disturbs the earth's natural wind for their own selfish benefit? And using anchors to disturb the ocean floor, who would do such a thing, any competent sailor can just sail in circles instead.

You get the point right? Having an engine or not using it when possible is a completely different thing than not having one at all.

[robert sailor]

Judging others is not the best attribute to have and that goes both ways.

Like many of you I read most of the Pardey books and they had a hand in my casting off the dock lines and going cruising. Thirty years ago when my boat's motor water pump crapped out, the normal way to get parts in those days was to have other cruisers deliver them...so 3 months later, after sailing every inch under sail alone, I finally got the part. During that time, many lessons were learned and my racing background came into play...they were all good and served me well years later, so getting back to basics is always a good idea...even for awhile. Back then I was sailing a 36 ft boat and it was just fine to handle under sail alone. I recall when we were in the Marshall Islands a cruising couple with 2 kids had a major engine problem and wasn't able to get the parts for several weeks, but they did not stop sailing. I watched them short tacking into a very narrow pass and I wonder how many cruisers today could do the same thing. 'Simple' has its virtues and helps many folks really enjoy themselves. For those with deep pockets (especially the ones with really big boats and marginal sailing ability) well I'm not so sure they are any happier. Our current boat has all the bells and whistles and its complicated and much more expensive to operate so while I have sailed in simple boats in the past I'm not doing it now but I still have wonderful thoughts about the pre GPS days and how much fun we had and I admire those couples out their today just sailing the simple way.