a captain’s dying wish

[taxwizz]

Is assisting a suicide, in any way, illegal. Can you be charged?
With a criminal record, you may never be able to leave your native country again....For life.

[George DuBose]

Actually, I have considered "being lost at sea" if I ever am diagnosed with an incurable. Drowning takes 6-10 minutes if one doesn't fight it. Beats lying in a hospital for 6 months on pain medicine.

As far as a good way to dispose of a fiberglass boat, there are firms in the UK and EU that are now recycling fiberglass hulls by grinding them into a powder, mixing it with concrete and making building blocks.

Finally, someone has figured out a way to dispose of derelict hulls.

[daw_two]

Originally Posted by wolfgal

hey guys and gals,

CUT

...
yes, i can accept his dying wish and will ...because that’s what we, the living, do. after all, it is not me who is dying. but, this means that i cannot suggest to him how gifting his boat could leave a beautiful memory of him and/or change someone's life in huge way; nor can i mention how, for many, polluting the planet is unforgivable in this day and age.

...

CUT

Hi wolfgal.

If I were in your position, I would drop subtle hints by stating what I would do. You would not be suggesting what he should do, just stating what you would do.

[CarlF]

Sebastian Junger when he researched the Perfect Storm interviewed many "near drowning" victims who had been rescued after losing consciousness. Their description of drowning was not physically pleasant. The body is desperate to breath. Perhaps worse, many reported that their last conscious thought was "This is the stupidest thing I ever did in a long life of stupid mistakes". That doesn't seem like a good last thought.

I think I would get one of the reliable and painless euthanasia pills that are readily available now from China. Obtaining them is not legal but who cares if you're the one taking it? And then I'd set the sails, point the bow towards the sea, and "drift off at the helm". The boat and I would eventually be found - but I would already have sailed ahead. The boat would be given to a charity to help someone else.

Should I ever be in the unfortunate position of doing this, I'd have this note on me taken from Roger Duncan's Cruising Guide to the New England Coast about passing Schoodic Point in far eastern Maine. My family knows it well.

"To be headed east by Schoodic bell before a summer sou'wester with Mount Desert fading astern and the lonely spike of Petit Manan Light just visible on the port bow is about as close to perfection as a person can expect to come on this imperfect earth."

[Chris Cringle]

It's hard to imagine anything more personal than choosing when, where, and how to die. (assuming one has the rare luxury of choice in the matter) But given the choice between leaving this mortal coil in a brightly lit, noisy, kinetic hospital, with tubes thrust into every natural and several custom-made bodily orifices, or checking-out on the deck of my beloved ketch and riding her down into the abyss to join 100,000 other vessels and a couple of million seamen......well, it would be an easy decision for me. And then there is the question; did he ask for your input, or just honor you with the sharing of his thoughts?

[taxwizz]

I think I would prefer a heart attack while sleeping, or even being hit by a truck. (A LARGE truck.)

[Greg Mason]

Such a interesting topic Wolfgal. What I read in your post is the process of grief. It is not something most of us are familiar with, partly because we have never learned the vocabulary for it, daresay embraced it. Society has disenfranchised it, viewed it as dark. Opinions are just that, whether rendered here, or anywhere else. I have found that questions offer the best chance at seeking intent. I might ask your friend has he ever considered a legacy and what that might look like? If it was a house would he just set it ablaze and remove any reference of worldly trappings? Is there a chance that he may be guilting you to get involved, even at this late stage of his life? An intervention to prove you care? Most of us who have survived adversity do it from a position of strength, not weakness. I see it as a conundrum, are your feelings more important than his? Does this become an albatross for you? After all, your life continues. I am not convinced the answer lies in pollution, or how the life stage ends, or what is considered right or wrong. I, like many others would like to have some say in how life ends for me, it seems there are only 2 options, lose your body or your mind. I would be most interested in his intent. I hope you come to some agreement with your soul.

[wolfgal]

Originally Posted by taxwizz

I think I would prefer a heart attack while sleeping, or even being hit by a truck. (A LARGE truck.)

interesting.

actually, you know when you wake up from a deep, deep sleep and feel how easy the sleep-passing could be? these moments make one realise how it could all happen in one's absence (so to speak). no drama, peaceful...

yet one is not entirely there to live it either.

i guess choosing how one goes is, in fact, a privilege.


wolfgal

[taxwizz]

Originally Posted by wolfgal

actually, you know when you wake up from a deep, deep sleep and feel how easy the sleep-passing could be? these moments make one realise how it could all happen in one's absence (so to speak). no drama, peaceful...

yet one is not entirely there to live it either.

i guess choosing how one goes is, in fact, a privilege.

I think that the death experience is something I would prefer to forgo.

[stevenhigbee]

The weak point in the Captain's plan is the difficulty of scuttling a boat without supervision of a live skipper. Perhaps a better plan would be making arrangements to have the boat towed out for sea burial with him in it after his death, with arrangements made to first have it properly prepared for environmentally-safe scuttling.


If he were to open a seacock then put a bullet in his brain, there is no assurance that it goes down where and when intended, and that something doesn't plug up the thru-hull long enough for it to drift inland or otherwise cause a navigation hazard. And no captain should consider intentional scuttling without first removing all fuel tanks, engines, and other environmental hazards.

[hpeer]

I used to think I wanted to be shot by a jealous lover on my 95th birthday.


Then I thought it might be my Wife’s lover!!!!!!

[kazo]

Originally Posted by wolfgal

hey guys and gals,


i’m trying to wrap my head around something and would appreciate some constructive input or perhaps even just an ear. i’m wrangling with a sailor-friend’s dying wish.

we all know how, traditionally, captains proudly go down with their ships… well, this is kind of one of those stories, or it will be:


i met Sam (not his real name) a few years ago, after having inquired about the boat he had (how it sailed, performed, held up). we became friends and sailed a few times, shared a few good times, but eventually lost touch. (background story: he had hoped we would become a couple, but he wasn't for me; so i let it go.)

a time passed, and quite recently he contacted me, told me he has only months to live and just wanted to leave with the feeling that everything is ok between us ("yes, we are good, no worries").
he also told me that his dying wish is to take his boat out for one last sail, pull the plug, and go down with it.

i believe i understand the principle behind this wish:
he was on his own and in command of his yacht (quite contently) for so much of his time living aboard; and he is literally losing everything to death so is surely striving to 'pass through' while holding onto the feeling of living life (and dying) on his own terms, in his home, on his boat.

that said, i find myself ruminating over a few things:

one is how he hasn’t mentioned those friends who may want to say goodbye or be able to grieve. surely, it would mean a lot to many (including me) to meet him there, have a drink with him, make a toast, shed a few tears and perhaps even see him off…(or at least be invited to do so); but, as far as i can tell, this is not a part of his plan. and that’s ok, but it is true that there is a little something missing in this departure for those people who care or have cared about him.

beyond this, i feel uncomfortable about the scuttling of a boat (agm batteries and all) and adding to the huge pollution problem in the sea. the environmental pollution, and especially marine pollution, is a huge issue for me (yes, i’m that gal who picks up the garbage - even gave up buying meat, fish and dairy for myself, for the planet - staying thin is quite easy folks!). so i guess this is me who has a problem…, but then, it is a good question: isn’t there cause for feeling responsible for the environment (for one's most treasured environments, especially), even on one's last day?

and then i’ve got this other unsettling thought:
how he is placing more value on going-down-with-his-ship than the value of leaving a legacy of some kind, some trace of having lived a meaningful life.

yes, i’m brave enough to call it out: Sam has a few friends, not just me, who would cherish his lovely sailboat to the moon and back, not to mention the slip he owns with more than 15 years on the lease. it is not that i have my sights on his boat, in particular. actually, there is this young, sailing guy at the marina who has had a real tough time in life (lousy parents, a drunken mother). he lives partly in a car, trying to run a detailing business...; and yes that boat could be that unexpected gift, that huge act of kindness that changes this young man’s entire existence, forever. maybe, maybe not, but perhaps worth a try?

the only way i can understand Sam's choice: he never had kids and, as i observed firsthand, wasn't the type who jumped to help strangers in a jam. so maybe he did not get much of this kind of positive feedback in his lifetime: you know, the intangible reward that comes when we do things for others without expecting anything in return. my feeling is that actions like these never really took root in him, (which, curiously, is definitely one of the reasons for which he never found his way into my heart).

yes, i can accept his dying wish and will ...because that’s what we, the living, do. after all, it is not me who is dying. but, this means that i cannot suggest to him how gifting his boat could leave a beautiful memory of him and/or change someone's life in huge way; nor can i mention how, for many, polluting the planet is unforgivable in this day and age. nor can i mention how it might be nice for him to allow his friends an opportunity to make a final toast, share in his loss, even in a small way... all these suggestions would be me passing judgement, and that's a no-go.

all this is ok, nothing i cannot get over... perhaps i just needed to air my thoughts with a few souls who are willing to contemplate with me a bit. after all losing friends (life) is tough, and, like them, we are all finite.

thanks

I see there are five pages of answers to your post, haven't read any not to be influenced by others' position on this.

I'm at the point in life when one posits to yourself a question of departure from this life, you can see that I assume existence of the one after, so I'm partial from this angle in my position.

I understand a wish and appeal not to depart in the maze of tubes hooked to my body, oblivious to the fact of dying, and choosing the exit on my terms without inflicting undue burden on others. Although 'a good death' reconciled with oneself, others and God, surrounded by family and friends is an appealing alternative.

Your reservation about the pollution by a battery banks and fuel are of little importance (and environmental impact) juxtaposing the issue at hand.
Advise him on the smallest possible battery to have his AIS working while afloat and burn the fuel before scuttling, being slightly sarcastic here.

The alternative you're suggesting is sending him where he doesn't want to go and dying the way he wants to avoid, unless there would be someone (you?) who would accompanying him on that final road with utmost care and compassion and love that maybe he has never experienced in his (egotistical?) life.
It maybe a desperate cry of lonely soul to you, someone, not to exit life alone, but that may imply a serious sacrifice for others willing to help.
Don't want to be unsubtle but to me you your post is more about you then Sam

[captmikem]

Originally Posted by taxwizz

Just suggesting that he may change his mind at the last moment as the water enters his lungs, and his body instinctively fights it.

We live (or die) with our choices in life. Or we just sit home and wait for it to be safe... pretty soon our decisions are made for us.

M

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by boatman61

If it's not laying on the bottom of the Med it'll be chopped up and put in a landfill somewhere.. the battle against pollution was lost the minute the first layer of glass went into the mold..
However it will do more good on the seabed than a landfill.. creatures can make a home in and on it.
You could risk suggesting he donate his boat, how well that would be received only you know from experience..
Otherwise.. Let him go his own way..
Personally I feel all this saying farewell and grieving stuff is a feel good factor for those remaining so they feel better in themselves and little to do with the dead.. a chance to exchange crocodile tears over someone they may have considered an a$$hole in life, something I have seen when people I know have died suddenly wrapped round a lamp post.. or something else slower and the family arguing over the oak dining table etc on the way to the crematorium.
But then.. I'm not a big softie and many have said I have a block of ice for a heart.

I want a long ship and a pyre. That being impractical dump my ashes on an outgoing tide. To the OP it is his decision. You didn't say what he has, possible something long and drawn out, which is something I wouldn't wish on anybody.
It almost sounds like he considers you his best friend. Don't fret over it.

[MJH]

Originally Posted by wolfgal

hey guys and gals,


i’m trying to wrap my head around something and would appreciate some constructive input or perhaps even just an ear. i’m wrangling with a sailor-friend’s dying wish.

we all know how, traditionally, captains proudly go down with their ships… well, this is kind of one of those stories, or it will be:


i met Sam (not his real name) a few years ago, after having inquired about the boat he had (how it sailed, performed, held up). we became friends and sailed a few times, shared a few good times, but eventually lost touch. (background story: he had hoped we would become a couple, but he wasn't for me; so i let it go.)

a time passed, and quite recently he contacted me, told me he has only months to live and just wanted to leave with the feeling that everything is ok between us ("yes, we are good, no worries").
he also told me that his dying wish is to take his boat out for one last sail, pull the plug, and go down with it.

i believe i understand the principle behind this wish:
he was on his own and in command of his yacht (quite contently) for so much of his time living aboard; and he is literally losing everything to death so is surely striving to 'pass through' while holding onto the feeling of living life (and dying) on his own terms, in his home, on his boat.

that said, i find myself ruminating over a few things:

one is how he hasn’t mentioned those friends who may want to say goodbye or be able to grieve. surely, it would mean a lot to many (including me) to meet him there, have a drink with him, make a toast, shed a few tears and perhaps even see him off…(or at least be invited to do so); but, as far as i can tell, this is not a part of his plan. and that’s ok, but it is true that there is a little something missing in this departure for those people who care or have cared about him.

beyond this, i feel uncomfortable about the scuttling of a boat (agm batteries and all) and adding to the huge pollution problem in the sea. the environmental pollution, and especially marine pollution, is a huge issue for me (yes, i’m that gal who picks up the garbage - even gave up buying meat, fish and dairy for myself, for the planet - staying thin is quite easy folks!). so i guess this is me who has a problem…, but then, it is a good question: isn’t there cause for feeling responsible for the environment (for one's most treasured environments, especially), even on one's last day?

and then i’ve got this other unsettling thought:
how he is placing more value on going-down-with-his-ship than the value of leaving a legacy of some kind, some trace of having lived a meaningful life.

yes, i’m brave enough to call it out: Sam has a few friends, not just me, who would cherish his lovely sailboat to the moon and back, not to mention the slip he owns with more than 15 years on the lease. it is not that i have my sights on his boat, in particular. actually, there is this young, sailing guy at the marina who has had a real tough time in life (lousy parents, a drunken mother). he lives partly in a car, trying to run a detailing business...; and yes that boat could be that unexpected gift, that huge act of kindness that changes this young man’s entire existence, forever. maybe, maybe not, but perhaps worth a try?

the only way i can understand Sam's choice: he never had kids and, as i observed firsthand, wasn't the type who jumped to help strangers in a jam. so maybe he did not get much of this kind of positive feedback in his lifetime: you know, the intangible reward that comes when we do things for others without expecting anything in return. my feeling is that actions like these never really took root in him, (which, curiously, is definitely one of the reasons for which he never found his way into my heart).

yes, i can accept his dying wish and will ...because that’s what we, the living, do. after all, it is not me who is dying. but, this means that i cannot suggest to him how gifting his boat could leave a beautiful memory of him and/or change someone's life in huge way; nor can i mention how, for many, polluting the planet is unforgivable in this day and age. nor can i mention how it might be nice for him to allow his friends an opportunity to make a final toast, share in his loss, even in a small way... all these suggestions would be me passing judgement, and that's a no-go.

all this is ok, nothing i cannot get over... perhaps i just needed to air my thoughts with a few souls who are willing to contemplate with me a bit. after all losing friends (life) is tough, and, like them, we are all finite.

thanks

There is a misunderstanding of the tradition "the captain goes down with the ship" in this example. He is not endeavoring, to his last breath, to save others on board or save his vessel, quite the contrary. The act is self-serving if he succeeds.

I would suggest he consider a long challenging voyage.

If he succeeds in reaching his destination he has one lasting happy memory. It will alter his thoughts for his remaining days (we are never the same person after such a voyage).

If he does not succeed in reaching his destination then he has given his last efforts in the spirit of old tradition.

~ ~ _/) ~ ~ MJH