What Will Happen to Boat Pricing when Euro Is Under Par to US$ ?

[savoir]

Originally Posted by Dkdoyle

This has turned into an interesting thread. Right now I own two boats and live in a house. I am selling the house to downsize and continue to sock away as much as possible for retirement. I grow tired of our elected officials inability to stop spending. It would make far more sense to either rent or live aboard. No property taxes that way. It is a section I will have to make near term.

Agree about austere times coming but another twist from the US is that the president for campaigning is trying to stir up class warfare. This is a dangerous strategy when so many are out of work and it is perceived that the income gaps are widening. Now I can understand why people in a prior age hid money and didn't trust banks. I could not even imagine the unemployment rates of 20 % that I have heard of in Europe.

Back to boats. Avoid all the taxes and live aboard? Tempting.

If it's 20% unemployment you seek there's plenty of it right there in Florida.

[Therapy]

I just assited on a Medicaid C-section.

Might as well be for free (almost anyway).

And the pt. will never get a piece of paper to show her what was given her (besides her fourth (Medicaid) baby).

I bet if she knew I had a boat she would know I was rich and should have done the case for free.

Without complaining.

NO sailing today. On call. Like nearly every weekend.........to support my habits.

[Artif]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Unemployment rates in Europe are running in general between 10% and 14%. Of course there is far greater social support systems with mitigate that effect. The worst place on earth to be poor is the US

Dave

Fascinating thread, interesting to see the views of non Europeans.

However I can only assume you are referring to the official government figures of unemployment, the real figures are far far worse in the U.K. A huge portion of the population doesn't fit the official criteria of being unemployed, so don't get counted.
The social support systems here are in real trouble as well.

[Capt Phil]

Not that different story on unemployment figures here in the US, Artif... you need to be collecting UI to be counted otherwise you are dropped from the figures. These are politically motivated figures to make the incumbent administration look good (?). In the US, the recent drop from 9% to 8.6% unemployment rate included removing 120,000 who found jobs but deleted 360,000 who no longer were eligible for unemployment benefits, therefore not counted as unemployed! Go figure!! The true unemployment figure in the US is closer to 14-16% when you count those who have given up looking for a job and those no longer eligible to collect unemployment.
I believe it will get easier and easier to find folks qualified and willing to work on boats for cash at a reasonable wage rate in Florida and California. Capt Phil

[Dkdoyle]

Quite true. Florida unemployment is at 9% last I heard. I got laid off last dec and had another job in a week. The tech field has been good to me an I know how to network. As for the real unemployment rate I would gather with so many folks that Have given up looking for a job it would be closer to 25%. Not a good sign of the times but there is some small signs of a recovery. Of course with the euro jn trouble those meager gains could be reversed quickly. It's very scary for the elderly on fixed incomes.

[vegasandre]

Well
all seems to be going according to plan so far at least in the Euro's case. Looks like it might go below the 1.30 level to the dollar here within a few hours.

Interesting to see how this discussion has been going. Its great to hear from people all over the world and their perspectives which may be the same or differ from those in other parts.

On the good news side - I am finally getting out of Vegas and moving the family to Coronado(by san diego) on Jan 1st. My current boat will be a few miles away now.
looking forward to getting that Catana in a year-18 months probably from a french person who will need to unload it in the Caribbean and looking forwards to that dollar -euor parity pricing.

Also I have shorted the euro from 1.375 (straight futures contract(thank god its R J obrien and not Mf Global) - and only two contracts but its better than nothing up around 20k so far)

Looking for a rebound to 1.34 ish then I will add another contract.

[Capt Phil]

Good move, vegasandre... Coronado is a sweet spot to settle, a little pricey but a great climate and close to boating. I lived in SD for about 12 years aboard sail and power and still miss it.
Last I checked the Euro hit 1.30US and with the non-politicians trying to make decisions, good currency to short. With Britain out of the picture, at least temporarily, the roiling will continue in the currency markets while politico's dither and wither. Contrary to goboatingnow's prediction, I don't believe the Euro is going to make it although Dave and I are in agreement on the dynamics, just not the outcome. The IMF will try and rush in to save the day but the US has a veto on a major portion of their support and it would be political suicide to overtly OK that many US $ to flow into the European financial mess IMO. Capt Phil

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Capt Phil

Good move, vegasandre... Coronado is a sweet spot to settle, a little pricey but a great climate and close to boating. I lived in SD for about 12 years aboard sail and power and still miss it.
Last I checked the Euro hit 1.30US and with the non-politicians trying to make decisions, good currency to short. With Britain out of the picture, at least temporarily, the roiling will continue in the currency markets while politico's dither and wither. Contrary to goboatingnow's prediction, I don't believe the Euro is going to make it although Dave and I are in agreement on the dynamics, just not the outcome. The IMF will try and rush in to save the day but the US has a veto on a major portion of their support and it would be political suicide to overtly OK that many US $ to flow into the European financial mess IMO. Capt Phil

You might look at who pays the IMF and its not the US. Currently the US would support the IMF intervention, I'm fact the US wants a fed style quantative feasing through the IMF, the ecb whatever.

The summit over the weekend was solely designed to give the germans a face saving exercise to let the ecb intervene. ( because Its the only way in the shortterm to solve the problem). Remember the Eu fundamentals are better then the US. This crises couldn't happen in the us as you as the fed can just print dollars. Until the ecb can do so we can't get out of this situation, given in a collapse the ecb would automatically be defunct, can you see it disappearing out of inactivity. ( along with most of the political classes) I don't. The germans now have their much vaunted fiscal stability pact, the Brits are on the sidelined, much to the eurozones relief. I expect the Ecb will intervene now increasingly acting as lender of last resort. That buys enough time for the other measures to kick in,,

As to euro dollar well the most recent fall was mainly due to the cut in Euribor rates. I remember when it was 95 cents to the dollar. We've a long way to go yet. Remember on its launch the general feeling was parity or a bit above was the ideal point to ensure Eurozone competitiveness.

Sure there is a finite risk that out of inaction a calamity could occur. Our course I hope you intend to buy the boat in Greece or somewhere. If its germany or France you could need barrowfulls of dollars against a strong Mark or Franc.

Dave

[delmarrey]

Originally Posted by Dkdoyle

Well I am not European so I can't speak to your system but we do have welfare, gov subsidized housing, unemployment money, and Medicaid for medical services. , food stamps. That's just the government. In addition we have a very abundant services systems, centers, food banks, churches. I am not saying it's easy but we do feed folks and try to get them on their feet. I just got back shopping for children I will never meet.

As an example here are the services just in California.....

Each agency has an Independent Board and staff on the State payrolls with retirement benefits to follow.
California Academic Performance Index (API) * California Access for Infants and Mothers * California Acupuncture Board * California Administrative Office of the Courts * California Adoptions Branch * California African American Museum * California Agricultural Export Program * California Agricultural Labor Relations Board * California Agricultural Statistics Service * California Air Resources Board (CARB) * California Allocation Board * California Alternative Energy and Advanced Transportation Financing Authority * California Animal Health and Food Safety Services * California Anti-Terrorism Information Center * California Apprenticeship Council * California Arbitration Certification Program * California Architects Board * California Area VI Developmental Disabilities Board * California Arts Council * California Asian Pacific Islander Legislative Caucus * California Assembly Democratic Caucus * California Assembly Republican Caucus * California Athletic Commission * California Attorney General * California Bay Conservation and Development Commission * California Bay-Delta Authority * California Bay-Delta Office * California Biodiversity Council * California Board for Geologists and Geophysicists * California Board for Professional Engineers and Land Surveyors * California Board of Accountancy * California Board of Barbering and Cosmetology * California Board of Behavioral Sciences * California Board of Chiropractic Examiners * California Board of Equalization (BOE) * California Board of Forestry and Fire Protection * California Board of Guide Dogs for the Blind * California Board of Occupational Therapy * California Board of Optometry * California Board of Pharmacy * California Board of Podiatric Medicine * California Board of Prison Terms * California Board of Psychology * California Board of Registered Nursing * California Board of Trustees * California Board of Vocational Nursing and Psychiatric Technicians * California Braille and Talking Book Library * California Building Standards Commission * California Bureau for Private Postsecondary and Vocational Education * California Bureau of Automotive Repair * California Bureau of Electronic and Appliance Repair * California Bureau of Home Furnishings and Thermal Insulation * California Bureau of Naturopathic Medicine * California Bureau of Security and Investigative Services * California Bureau of State Audits * California Business Agency * California Business Investment Services (CalBIS) * California Business Permit Information (CalGOLD) * California Business Portal * California Business, Transportation and Housing Agency * California Cal Grants * California CalJOBS * California Cal-Learn Program * California CalVet Home Loan Program * California Career Resource Network * California Cemetery and Funeral Bureau * California Center for Analytical Chemistry * California Center for Distributed Learning * California Center for Teaching Careers (Teach California) * California Chancellors Office * California Charter Schools * California Children and Families Commission * California Children and Family Services Division * California Citizens Compensation Commission * California Civil Rights Bureau * California Coastal Commission * California Coastal Conservancy * California Code of Regulations * California Collaborative Projects with UC Davis * California Commission for Jobs and Economic Growth * California Commission on Aging * California Commission on Health and Safety and Workers Compensation * California Commission on Judicial Performance * California Commission on State Mandates * California Commission on Status of Women * California Commission on Teacher Credentialing * California Commission on the Status of Women * California Committee on Dental Auxiliaries * California Community Colleges Chancellors Office, Junior Colleges * California Community Colleges Chancellors Office * California Complaint Mediation Program * California Conservation Corps * California Constitution Revision Commission * California Consumer Hotline * California Consumer Information Center * California Consumer Information * California Consumer Services Division * California Consumers and Families Agency * California Contractors State License Board * California Corrections Standards Authority * California Council for the Humanities * California Council on Criminal Justice * California Council on Developmental Disabilities * California Court Reporters Board * California Courts of Appeal * California Crime and Violence Prevention Center * California Criminal Justice Statistics Center * California Criminalist Institute Forensic Library * California CSGnet Network Management * California Cultural and Historical Endowment * California Cultural Resources Division * California Curriculum and Instructional Leadership Branch * California Data Exchange Center * California Data Management Division * California Debt and Investment Advisory Commission * California Delta Protection Commission * California Democratic Caucus * California Demographic Research Unit * California Dental Auxiliaries * California Department of Aging * California Department of Alcohol and Drug Programs * California Department of Alcoholic Beverage Control Appeals Board * California Department of Alcoholic Beverage Control * California Department of Boating and Waterways (Cal Boating) * California Department of Child Support Services (CDCSS) * California Department of Community Services and Development * California Department of Conservation * California Department of Consumer Affairs * California Department of Corporations * California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation * California Department of Developmental Services * California Department of Education * California Department of Fair Employment and Housing * California Department of Finance * California Department of Financial Institutions * California Department of Fish and Game * California Department of Food and Agriculture * California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection (CDF) * California Department of General Services * California Department of General Services, Office of State Publishing * California Department of Health Care Services * California Department of Housing and Community Development * California Department of Industrial Relations (DIR) * California Department of Insurance * California Department of Justice Firearms Division * California Department of Justice Opinion Unit * California Department of Justice, Consumer Information, Public Inquiry Unit * California Department of Justice * California Department of Managed Health Care * California Department of Mental Health * California Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV) * California Department of Personnel Administration * California Department of Pesticide Regulation * California Department of Public Health * California Department of Real Estate * California Department of Rehabilitation * California Department of Social Services Adoptions Branch * California Department of Social Services * California Department of Technology Services Training Center (DTSTC) * California Department of Technology Services (DTS) * California Department of Toxic Substances Control * California Department of Transportation (Caltrans) * California Department of Veterans Affairs (CalVets) * California Department of Water Resources * California Departmento de Vehiculos Motorizados * California Digital Library * California Disabled Veteran Business Enterprise Certification Program * California Division of Apprenticeship Standards * California Division of Codes and Standards * California Division of Communicable Disease Control * California Division of Engineering * California Division of Environmental and Occupational Disease Control * California Division of Gambling Control * California Division of Housing Policy Development * California Division of Labor Standards Enforcement * California Division of Labor Statistics and Research * California Division of Land and Right of Way * California Division of Land Resource Protection * California Division of Law Enforcement General Library * California Division of Measurement Standards * California Division of Mines and Geology * California Division of Occupational Safety and Health (Cal/OSHA) * California Division of Oil, Gas and Geothermal Resources * California Division of Planning and Local Assistance * California Division of Recycling * California Division of Safety of Dams * California Division of the State Architect * California Division of Tourism * California Division of Workers Compensation Medical Unit * California Division of Workers Compensation * California Economic Assistance, Business and Community Resources * California Economic Strategy Panel * California Education and Training Agency * California Education Audit Appeals Panel * California Educational Facilities Authority * California Elections Division * California Electricity Oversight Board * California Emergency Management Agency * California Emergency Medical Services Authority * California Employment Development Department (EDD) * California Employment Information State Jobs * California Employment Training Panel * California Energy Commission * California Environment and Natural Resources Agency * California Environmental Protection Agency (Cal/EPA) * California Environmental Resources Evaluation System (CERES) * California Executive Office * California Export Laboratory Services * California Exposition and State Fair (Cal Expo) * California Fair Political Practices Commission * California Fairs and Expositions Division * California Film Commission * California Fire and Resource Assessment Program * California Firearms Division * California Fiscal Services * California Fish and Game Commission * California Fisheries Program Branch * California Floodplain Management * California Foster Youth Help * California Franchise Tax Board (FTB) * California Fraud Division * California Gambling Control Commission * California Geographic Information Systems Council (GIS) * California Geological Survey * California Government Claims and Victim Compensation Board * California Governors Committee for Employment of Disabled Persons * California Governors Mentoring Partnership * California Governors Office of Emergency Services * California Governors Office of Homeland Security * California Governors Office of Planning and Research * California Governors Office * California Grant and Enterprise Zone Programs HCD Loan * California Health and Human Services Agency * California Health and Safety Agency * California Healthy Families Program * California Hearing Aid Dispensers Bureau * California High-Speed Rail Authority * California Highway Patrol (CHP) * California History and Culture Agency * California Horse Racing Board * California Housing Finance Agency * California Indoor Air Quality Program * California Industrial Development Financing Advisory Commission * California Industrial Welfare Commission * California InFoPeople * California Information Center for the Environment * California Infrastructure and Economic Development Bank (I-Bank) * California Inspection Services * California Institute for County Government * California Institute for Education Reform * California Integrated Waste Management Board * California Interagency Ecological Program * California Job Service * California Junta Estatal de Personal * California Labor and Employment Agency * California Labor and Workforce Development Agency * California Labor Market Information Division * California Land Use Planning Information Network (LUPIN) * California Lands Commission * California Landscape Architects Technical Committee * California Latino Legislative Caucus * California Law Enforcement Branch * California Law Enforcement General Library * California Law Revision Commission * California Legislative Analyst's Office * California Legislative Black Caucus * California Legislative Counsel * California Legislative Division * California Legislative Information * California Legislative Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender (LGBT) Caucus * California Legislature Internet Caucus * California Library De velopment Services * California License and Revenue Branch * California Major Risk Medical Insurance Program * California Managed Risk Medical Insurance Board * California Maritime Academy * California Marketing Services * California Measurement Standards * California Medical Assistance Commission * California Medical Care Services * California Military Department * California Mining and Geology Board * California Museum for History, Women, and the Arts * California Museum Resource Center * California National Guard * California Native American Heritage Commission * California Natural Community Conservation Planning Program * California New Motor Vehicle Board * California Nursing Home Administrator Program * California Occupational Safety and Health Appeals Board * California Occupational Safety and Health Standards Board * California Ocean Resources Management Program * California Office of Administrative Hearings * California Office of Administrative Law * California Office of AIDS * California Office of Binational Border Health * California Office of Child Abuse Prevention * California Office of Deaf Access * California Office of Emergency Services (OES) * California Office of Environmental Health Hazard Assessment * California Office of Fiscal Services * California Office of Fleet Administration * California Office of Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA) Implementation (CalOHI) * California Office of Historic Preservation * California Office of Homeland Security * California Office of Human Resources * California Office of Legal Services * California Office of Legislation * California Office of Lieutenant Governor * California Office of Military and Aerospace Support * California Office of Mine Reclamation * California Office of Natural Resource Education * California Office of Privacy Protection * California Office of Public School Construction * California Office of Real Estate Appraisers * California Office of Risk and Insurance Management * California Office of Services to the Blind * California Office of Spill Prevention and Response * California Office of State Publishing (OSP) * California Office of Statewide Health Planning and Development * California Office of Systems Integration * California Office of the Inspector General * California Office of the Ombudsman * California Office of the Patient Advocate * California Office of the President * California Office of the Secretary for Education * California Office of the State Fire Marshal * California Office of the State Public Defender * California Office of Traffic Safety * California Office of Vital Records * California Online Directory * California Operations Control Office * California Opinion Unit * California Outreach and Technical Assistance Network (OTAN) * California Park and Recreation Commission * California Peace Officer Standards and Training (POST) * California Performance Review (CPR) * California Permit Information for Business (CalGOLD) * California Physical Therapy Board * California Physician Assistant Committee * California Plant Health and Pest Prevention Services * California Policy and Evaluation Division * California Political Reform Division * California Pollution Control Financing Authority * California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo * California Postsecondary Education Commission * California Prevention Services * California Primary Care and Family Health * California Prison Industry Authority * California Procurement Division * California Public Employees Retirement System (CalPERS) * California Public Employment Relations Board (PERB) * California Public Utilities Commission (PUC) * California Real Estate Services Division * California Refugee Programs Branch * California Regional Water Quality Control Boards * California Registered Veterinary Technician Committee * California Registrar of Charitable Trusts * California Republican Caucus * California Research and Development Division * California Research Bureau * California Resources Agency * California Respiratory Care Board * California Rivers Assessment * California Rural Health Policy Council * California Safe Schools * California San Francisco Bay Conservation and Development Commission * California San Gabriel and Lower Los Angeles Rivers and Mountains Conservancy * California San Joaquin River Conservancy * California School to Career * California Science Center * California Scripps Institution of Oceanography * California Secretary of State Business Portal * California Secretary of State * California Seismic Safety Commission * California Self Insurance Plans (SIP) * California Senate Office of Research * California Small Business and Disabled Veteran Business Enterprise Certification Program * California Small Business Development Center Program * California Smart Growth Caucus * California Smog Check Information Center * California Spatial Information Library * California Special Education Division * California Speech-Language Pathology and Audiology Board * California Standardized Testing and Reporting (STAR) * California Standards and Assessment Division * California State Administrative Manual (SAM) * California State Allocation Board * California State and Consumer Services Agency * California State Architect * California State Archives * California State Assembly * California State Association of Counties (CSAC) * California State Board of Education * California State Board of Food and Agriculture *California Office of the Chief Information Officer (OCIO) * California State Children's Trust Fund * California State Compensation Insurance Fund * California State Contracts Register Program * California State Contracts Register * California State Controller * California State Council on Developmental Disabilities (SCDD) * California State Disability Insurance (SDI) * California State Fair (Cal Expo) * California State Jobs Employment Information * California State Lands Commission * California State Legislative Portal * California State Legislature * California State Library Catalog * California State Library Services Bureau * California State Library * California State Lottery * California State Mediation and Conciliation Service * California State Mining and Geology Board * California State Park and Recreation Commission * California State Parks * California State Personnel Board * California State Polytechnic University, Pomona * California State Railroad Museum * California State Science Fair * California State Senate * California State Summer School for Mathematics and Science (COSMOS) * California State Summer School for the Arts * California State Superintendent of Public Instruction * California State Teachers Retirement System (CalSTRS) * California State Treasurer * California State University Center for Distributed Learning * California State University, Bakersfield * California State University, Channel Islands * California State University, Chico * California State University, Dominguez Hills * California State University, East Bay * California State University, Fresno * California State University, Fullerton * California State University, Long Beach * California State University, Los Angeles * California State University, Monterey Bay * California State University, Northridge * California State University, Sacramento * California State University, San Bernardino * California State University, San Marcos * California State University, Stanislaus * California State University (CSU) * California State Water Project Analysis Office * California State Water Project * California State Water Resources Control Board * California Structural Pest Control Board * California Student Aid Commission * California Superintendent of Public Instruction * California Superior Courts * California Tahoe Conservancy * California Task Force on Culturally and Linguistically Competent Physicians and Dentists * California Tax Information Center * California Technology and Administration Branch Finance * California Telecommunications Division * California Telephone Medical Advice Services (TAMS) * California Transportation Commission * California Travel and Transportation Agency * California Unclaimed Property Program * California Unemployment Insurance Appeals Board * California Unemployment Insurance Program * California Uniform Construction Cost Accounting Commission * California Veterans Board * California Veterans Memorial * California Veterinary Medical Board and Registered Veterinary Technician Examining Committee * California Veterinary Medical Board * California Victim Compensation and Government Claims Board * California Volunteers * California Voter Registration * California Water Commission * California Water Environment Association (COWPEA) * California Water Resources Control Board * California Welfare to Work Division * California Wetlands Information System * California Wildlife and Habitat Data Analysis Branch * California Wildlife Conservation Board * California Wildlife Programs Branch * California Work Opportunity and Responsibility to Kids (CalWORKs) * California Workers Compensation Appeals Board * California Workforce and Labor Development Agency * California Workforce Investment Board * California Youth Authority (CYA) * Central Valley Flood Protection Board * Center for California Studies * Colorado River Board of California * Counting California * Dental Board of California * Health Insurance Plan of California (PacAdvantage) * Humboldt State University * Jobs with the State of California * Judicial Council of California * Learn California * Library of California * Lieutenant Governors Commission for One California * Little Hoover Commission (on California State Government Organization and Economy) * Medical Board of California * Medi-Cal * Osteopathic Medical Board of California * Physical Therapy Board of California * Regents of the University of California * San Diego State University * San Francisco State University * San Jose State University * Santa Monica Mountains Conservancy * State Bar of California * Supreme Court of California * Teach California * University of California * University of California, Berkeley * University of California, Davis * University of California, Hastings College of the Law * University of California, Irvine * University of California, Los Angeles * University of California, Merced * University of California, Riverside * University of California, San Diego * University of California, San Francisco * University of California, Santa Barbara * University of California, Santa Cruz * Veterans Home of California

NO WONDER CALIFORNIA IS BANKRUPT

[Capt Phil]

CA isn't bankrupt as long as the feds bail them out which they will. I won't even buy a cup of coffee in CA let alone anything that will contribute to their tax base. It is a state run by and for idiots. See above!!
Once again, Dave, you are a voice of sanity in a world of insane discourse. I just don't see a good outcome for the Euro, dispite their best efforts. I don't believe that the union or the currency will survive in its present form. The financial dislocation will be felt worldwide and there will be little anyone can do about it. My guess is the cratering has already begun and will completely unravel by March 2012. I'd wait to buy my boat! Cheers, Capt Phil

[Dkdoyle]

Unbelievable. Somebody has to work to pay for it.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Capt Phil

CA isn't bankrupt as long as the feds bail them out which they will. I won't even buy a cup of coffee in CA let alone anything that will contribute to their tax base. It is a state run by and for idiots. See above!!
Once again, Dave, you are a voice of sanity in a world of insane discourse. I just don't see a good outcome for the Euro, dispite their best efforts. I don't believe that the union or the currency will survive in its present form. The financial dislocation will be felt worldwide and there will be little anyone can do about it. My guess is the cratering has already begun and will completely unravel by March 2012. I'd wait to buy my boat! Cheers, Capt Phil

Both the US and the world learned of the folly of just letting things fail (lehmans) they ensured that the resulting crises did not destroy them, I don't think anyone is going to let the euro fail or the disintegration of the the EU, the shocks could kill the whole western economy. Nope politicians may be fools but there're not lemmings.

Parts of the Eurozone are just like California, ( just with better culture,wine and food or course!!) what we dont have as a result of stupid German concerns is a fed to bail us out, however necessity being the mother..... And all that.

Dave

[Bash]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Parts of the Eurozone are just like California, ( just with better culture,wine and food or course!!)

Really? I teach seminars in Europe all the time, and I find the wines to be completely disappointing compared to our home-grown Californians.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Bash

Really? I teach seminars in Europe all the time, and I find the wines to be completely disappointing compared to our home-grown Californians.

That's because as a new worlder you're pallette cannot possibly have the genetic stock to appreciate our wines. No sorry not possible .....I mean come on Screw caps,,,never catch on

[DJBrookster]

Originally Posted by Bash

Really? I teach seminars in Europe all the time, and I find the wines to be completely disappointing compared to our home-grown Californians.

Clearly not in wine tasting!