VAT for non Euro resident

[peter.d.m]

Hi
I am looking at buying a used cat in Europe. My dilemma is around VAT - if it has not been paid you need to get it the heck out of Europe in 18 months which appears pretty straightforward.
However......, I can't find out what the ramifications are if VAT has been paid and as a non resident owner, I have the boat registered overseas.
My plan is to keep the boat there long term and spend as much time as I personally can in Europe (schengen and non schengen countries) as I legally can and be on the boat.
Thanks Pete

[boatman61]

If the boat has had its vat paid you have no worries as long as you have documented proof of vat paid amongst your ships papers/bill of sale when completing the contract.
Flag is irrelevant..
If vat has not been paid (ex charter for example) I would suggest you sail her out of EU waters to say Turkey or Tunisia as soon as possible after hand over and then return under the 18mth rule.

[peter.d.m]

Hi BM,
Thank you very much was hoping it could be that straightforward.If I took it to Turkey for 18 months which I believe is non schengen, could I then have it in shengen places taking into account the 3 months/180 day rule?

[chrisr]

as far as i am aware, you don't need to stay out of the eu for 18 months. 1 day is enough...just provided it is clearly documented that you left

this will reset your 18 month clock, which might be a good idea as you might find the boat has already been in the eu for 12 months or more and so does not have much time

nb : the 18 months applies even if there is a change of owner...does not restart just because you have purchased the boat

and the 90 days in every 180 days applies to you- not to the boat

cheers,

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by chrisr

as far as i am aware, you don't need to stay out of the eu for 18 months. 1 day is enough...just provided it is clearly documented that you left

Can you do that multiple times, in order to gain 18 month chunks of time?

Sounds like going to Turkey for three months would reset both clocks.

[chrisr]

yes, i believe so...but there are others here who may be more up to date than i am

and yes, a 3 month visit to turkey (or tunisia or israel...anywhere outside schengen) would definitely do the trick

the other option is to apply for a long stay visa. such are not too hard and will give you 12 months within schengen. only catch is you need to apply for such in your home country, but it's all manageable

cheers,

[boatman61]

Every time you leave and re-enter restarts your clock.
As stated up thread one does not need to stay out for 18mths but a couple off nights in a Turkish/Tunisian marina will provide all the proof you need to restart your clock.
I am very skeptical of the statements by some that a day sail to 12nm offshore and back is enough.. AIS/Track proof regardless.

[Anders]

Originally Posted by chrisr

the other option is to apply for a long stay visa. such are not too hard and will give you 12 months within schengen. only catch is you need to apply for such in your home country, but it's all manageable

cheers,

A long stay visa will legally give you 12 months in the country that issued the visa but still 90 in 180 days in the rest of Schengen.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

Can you do that multiple times, in order to gain 18 month chunks of time?

Sounds like going to Turkey for three months would reset both clocks.

Yes a temporary admission can be granted many times; one just needs to discharge the temporary admission by exporting to a foreign place [e.g., outside the EU] then reimport it again under temporary admission to set another 18 month tolling period.

It only takes one day for the vessel [a good] to depart and reenter the EU.

As to your short stay visa, just realize that your stay is permitted for only 90 days in any rolling 180 day period, so if you have stayed in Schengen for 90 days and leave the Schengen but return 90 days later you will only be able to stay for one additional day so as to not trigger the 90 days in any rolling 180 day period of time. So do not plan on 90 day visa cycling, instead plan 180 day scheduling. Meaning you can only spend half a year in Schengen, two accumulations of 90 day cycles.

One gets to visit the Schengen countries, one does not get to stay [migrate / reside] in the Schengen.

This typically involves leaving your vessel while you depart the Schengen for a considerable period of time, e.g., more than half the year, or traveling with your vessel to countries outside the Schengen territory during the more than half year.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Every time you leave and re-enter restarts your clock.
As stated up thread one does not need to stay out for 18mths but a couple off nights in a Turkish/Tunisian marina will provide all the proof you need to restart your clock.
I am very skeptical of the statements by some that a day sail to 12nm offshore and back is enough.. AIS/Track proof regardless.

Your skepticism is spot on. A good is not discharged of its temporary admission status by being exported until it has been transferred to a foreign place or port into which it is thence imported into that foreign customs territory. Taking a good [e.g., a vessel and its accoutrements and cargo] out to international waters and then returning back to the country / customs territory from which the good exited does not commence an exportation and thus does not perform a discharge of the temporary admission as that transit would only amount to a transport of the good within a customs territory, it does not achieve an export. An export requires there to be an import to another country or customs territory.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by Anders

A long stay visa will legally give you 12 months in the country that issued the visa but still 90 in 180 days in the rest of Schengen.

And a long stay can invoke tax residency [country specific laws apply].

General rule: One pays for the privilege to reside in a country.

Just as VAT is a form of privilege tax, very similar to the privilege taxation of Sale or Use invoked by a States of the USA.