Used boat market 2nd half 2022?

[Rumrace]

In the 90’s I power boated in Georgian Bay. We traded long weekends with good friends who sailed in Lake Ontario.
Being a devote power boater at the time a stunning baby blue scarab in a matching cover sat in his club. Being a donzi fan the boat made me want to race it.
I asked the harbour master who owned it. The guy put in 50 hour weeks hung around when he was off and didn’t know who owned the scarab Never saw it run or the cover off it.
Those poor motors

[Rumrace]

I saw that in Granville. What a crowd. I heard folks are docking out on the islands and it’s a pain to get to your boats
In Toronto 2017-19 Lake Ontario floods messed up slips everywhere.
One Island club and two mainland clubs were under water.
It’s still tragic and few spots for visitors.
When you review the top clubs in North America none of ours are listed but big and full.
Just west on Toronto’s boarder is a huge marine centre going into Port Credit. It will fill quick.
Lots of folks buying old boats without considering a dock or insurance.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Rumrace

Just west on Toronto’s boarder is a huge marine centre going into Port Credit. It will fill quick.

Do you mean Lakeview Village? They're only adding some capacity for kayaks/canoes/paddleboards. And very litle, if any dockage for larger boats. Though their brochures and ads are liberally salted with boat clipart. Developers love boats, except when it comes to accomodating them, and the necessary businesses.

And the Port Credit marina redevelopment - Where are you seeing additional slips? That whole project is smoke and mirrors to cover the city's windfall from putting condos where the boatyard and warehouses currently are. I haven't seen any plans that show much more than the current number of slips in Pt Credit marina. And there may no longer be a yard for storing boats, and the space allocated for marine services will be a small fraction of what currently exists.


Anyway...We are seeing generational turnover at our club - members ageing out, and the waiting list for slips has dropped from 4 years to a year or less. And I've seen $$$ clubs like Mimico or PCYC actually advertising for new members... so, there's space if you've got the bucks.

[argosail]

Originally Posted by Rumrace

If you’re young and being honest with us and yourself there are tons of sweet 30’ Sailboats around. Budget 35,000.00 and 10,000 upkeep repair and $7500.00 a year to park it. Increase the budget as it applies.
You can get a 1999 37’ Jeanneau in great shape for $50,000.00 or a 2020 Viko 35S tricabin for $200,000.00. The Jeanneau has reached the bottom price won’t go lower for 10 years unless damaged.
The Viko May go up in value but either are an asset to build some equity while dreaming about super yachts

This is close to where I'm at, purchasing a 1998 Dufour Classic 35 a little under 40k, in great condition. Got offer on it the day after it posted with a small discount. The OWS came out good, now hoping the IWS is as well. That being said still hesitant about used especially with this market change coming, but I bought relatively low... I have looked at the Viko's as there was a dealer at the Annapolis boat show, but I can't justify financing a boat right now.

[macieknan]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

And the Port Credit marina redevelopment

I kept a boat at Port Credit in 2000 - 2005, and at the time it looked like the place was deliberately being ran down year after year, so Im not surprised about the condo development.

Reportedly feds owned the actual land and supposedly it was under some long term lease - apparently because it was one of the few deep water harbours on lake Ontario.

Its a different kind of sailing in this corner of the lake - arguably very few destinations, so mostly back to your dock after a day sail.

After couple of winters on a boat in the Bahamas some years back, i am still hooked on it, and i am looking for another boat. I am cosidering a cat, having two youngsters now, but, like so many folks on this thread, I am having a difficult time watching prices go up, inventory down, and now my stash dwindling before my eyes with stock market crash and insane inflation... Uncertain times for sure. And this may take years, so probably it is better to settle on something smaller, than keep postponing till its too late... Life happens...

[NPCampbell]

Originally Posted by seandepagnier

This is incorrect information. geothermal is not renewable in the sense that wind and solar is. If we cool the core even slightly it can destabilize the magnetic field which protects us from cosmic rays, and prevents the atmosphere from being blow away by the solar wind

While we are splitting rat hairs ... Wind is not renewable either because wind turbines increase the Earth's moment of inertia thus slowing down the rotation of the planet.

[AKA-None]

Wow talk about splitting hairs
Habit loss, drought, wildfires
And we talk about cooling the earths core and slowing the earth’s rotation

[Mike OReilly]

As I mentioned, the vast majority of the Earth's heat is generated by radioactive decay. It's not fossilized heat from the primordial soup that formed the planet. It is continually being created.

So geothermal energy is nonrenewable in the same sense that wind or solar is nonrenewable; at some point the sun will stop shining. But in any reasonable sense of the word, geothermal is a renewable resource.

That said, it might be possible to 'cool' pockets of the Earth's crust with geothermal extraction. One would have to do the math, but it might be possible... But this in no way would have any impact on the Earth's total thermal budget, and likewise would have no effect on the planet's magnetic field.

[Rumrace]

Yes on Federal and Native Lands also. That River has an ugly history of treaties broken. I was up in Georgian Bay. The boating is spectacular. My 6 grand brats are in the city Sold my boat up there. Found one in probate in New York.
Nothing wrong with a Dufour. It was a very competitive size range and Dufour was not buying customers with price. Nice quiet floor. I’ve a friend with a 412 Dufour. It’s really a doll. It’s equal may be the Hunter 33 or the Jeanneau 36.2. Dufour has created a few new clients in the big boat category with the new investor. It’s a dangerous move unless they move some volume. I read like Jeanneau they are 80% return clients.
I’ve traveled down south and back and up the coast in BC in a pals boat. Taking the mast down in foreign clubs is no fun. Tides are no fun. My oldest grandson has been shanghaied and we did a night move toKingston. 187nm we took turn napping. Fun watching a kid poor in math plan our best path.

[MyCatLife]

Regarding new boat orders,...

The 2022 Annapolis Sailboat Show ended yesterday. Anyone have any insight into new boat orders? I can't imagine they are strong...

I'm sure order books are still "full" due to the back log... but are new orders still happening?

And what about cancelations? I have to imagine that interest rates have resulted in a significant amount of cancelations.

[BBill]

[QUOTE=MyCatLife;3694043]Regarding new boat orders,...

The 2022 Annapolis Sailboat Show ended yesterday. Anyone have any insight into new boat orders? I can't imagine they are strong...

I'm sure order books are still "full" due to the back log... but are new orders still happening?

And what about cancelations? I have to imagine that interest rates have resulted in a significant amount of cancelations.[/QUOTE

If history is an indicator, boat sales shut down every time the economy tanks. It was pretty drastic in the mid 1970s and early 2000s. I'm seeing the used sailboat inventory growing and the powerboat market slowing now...in Florida anyway. No telling how long the cat fad is going to drive sales.

[Sailing Hanse37]

In Europ: no slowdown, order books are full for the coming 3 years. Second hand market is empty, prices are high and even rising more…

[Sailing Hanse37]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

As I mentioned, the vast majority of the Earth's heat is generated by radioactive decay. It's not fossilized heat from the primordial soup that formed the planet. It is continually being created.

So geothermal energy is nonrenewable in the same sense that wind or solar is nonrenewable; at some point the sun will stop shining. But in any reasonable sense of the word, geothermal is a renewable resource.

That said, it might be possible to 'cool' pockets of the Earth's crust with geothermal extraction. One would have to do the math, but it might be possible... But this in no way would have any impact on the Earth's total thermal budget, and likewise would have no effect on the planet's magnetic field.

Euh, what did you eat yesterday ?

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by Sailing Hanse37

In Europ: no slowdown, order books are full for the coming 3 years. Second hand market is empty, prices are high and even rising more…

Boat sales are a lagging indicator. Wealthier people don't stop buying milk when the price goes up, but their large purchases are eventually effected by the economy, too.

Europe follows the same economic principles as everyone else. If the expected recessions show up, expect the boat market to soften.

But these times are a little interesting, just because governments have been throwing out so much money that lots of people have managed to soak some up, with relatively unpredictable results.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Sailing Hanse37

Euh, what did you eat yesterday ?

I have no idea what you're implying. If you're confused about the facts, I can point you to credible resources.