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Old 10-04-2020, 05:17   #46
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Re: Use tax question Florida

As stated before, no tax owed to Florida if purchased out of state and didn't come into Florida for first 6 months after purchase . . . but was the trip from Tx to Bahamas made without entering into Floridian waters? . . . . . Ahhh, the devil is in the details


California issue: Sad that the owner is in the position of being guilty until he/she can prove innocence. State of California should have PROOF that the boat was in California, and therefore subject to California jurisdiction/taxes before requiring the owner to PROVE that they were not. But that doesn't stop states from levying taxes all the time, threatening to apply liens, doing so, and forcing people to spend lots of time/money to PROVE that they are innocent.
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Old 10-04-2020, 05:34   #47
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Re: Use tax question Florida

Quote:
Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
There is an exemption for FL sales and use tax that the OP probably qualifies for.

If you meet and can prove the following:

- Boat was purchased outside FL
- Buyer was not a legal resident of FL at the time
- Boat was purchased and used legitimately, within the US or US territories, for at least six months before the boat or owner began residing in FL.

If all the above then you should be exempt from FL sales taxes, even if you did not pay tax in another state.
All correct, with the one addition above. Taking the boat outside of the US does not count towards the six months. Hence, in the case of the person who took their boat to the Bahamas for six months, use tax is still due.
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Old 10-04-2020, 06:38   #48
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Re: Use tax question Florida

Quote:
Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
If all the above then you should be exempt from FL sales taxes.



that's not what I was told by the Florida Tax Collector .. they wanted proof that I had paid sales tax in another state .. which I had .. but I did not register it there. If I had to do it again I would have registered it in the state that I bought it in
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Old 10-04-2020, 06:54   #49
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Re: Use tax question Florida

The following is from the form I just furnished the state of Florida:
[I][I]6.
Within 30 days of the date of departure from Florida of the herein described boat, I agree to furnish the Florida Department of Revenue with written proof that this vessel was licensed, titled, registered or documented outside Florida; and
7.
Within 10 days of the date of departure of the herein described vessel, I agree to furnish the Florida Department of Revenue with invoices for fuel, dockage charges, or repairs issued by out-of-state vendors or suppliers or other documentary evidence which specifically identifies this boat, including the hull ID number; and

I am aware of a case in which the owner failed to do this. Although he was originally billed for the tax, they did not enforce it when he provided the proof. The problem was that it was quite some time after he had left the state and it was an effort to get the documentation.
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Old 10-04-2020, 07:03   #50
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Re: Use tax question Florida

Quote:
Originally Posted by gonesail View Post
that's not what I was told by the Florida Tax Collector .. they wanted proof that I had paid sales tax in another state .. which I had .. but I did not register it there. If I had to do it again I would have registered it in the state that I bought it in
I called the head office of FL DoR in Tallahassee and the person in charge, forget his title but he was not just a clerk answering the phone, confirmed to me the six month rule, no issues about officially registering in another state. The main points:
- how long you owned the boat
- that you used the boat legitimately meaning you didn't buy it in GA, leave it in dry dock for six months and a day later cross the border to FL.

Didn't apply to me so didn't ask and don't recall anything about out of the US not counting as mentioned by Denver Don but as his information has always been correct on this issue I won't disagree.
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Old 10-04-2020, 07:10   #51
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Re: Use tax question Florida

The following is copied directly from FL DoR publication on sales tax for boats. Referring to if and when tax is due on a boat purchased out of state.

The boat is purchased in another state, territory of the United States, or District of Columbia and is brought into Florida within six (6) months of the purchase date; or

One would conclude that if the tax is due only if the boat is brought into FL within six months that if it wasn't brought into the state in six months then no tax would be due.
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Old 10-04-2020, 07:40   #52
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Re: Use tax question Florida

Quote:
Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
The following is copied directly from FL DoR publication on sales tax for boats. Referring to if and when tax is due on a boat purchased out of state.

The boat is purchased in another state, territory of the United States, or District of Columbia and is brought into Florida within six (6) months of the purchase date; or

One would conclude that if the tax is due only if the boat is brought into FL within six months that if it wasn't brought into the state in six months then no tax would be due.

In this case, it wasn't registered and used in another state, and it's been in Florida for two years.


Taxes are going to be due in Florida.
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Old 10-04-2020, 08:02   #53
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Re: Use tax question Florida

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Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3 View Post
In this case, it wasn't registered and used in another state, and it's been in Florida for two years.


Taxes are going to be due in Florida.
Maybe. From the OP "So we bought our sailboat in Texas in dec2017, we live in California.
We went in a 6 month trip and then have had the boat dry stored in Indian town in Florida ever since"

If the trip they made was not out of the country and if the boat was not in FL for the six month trip then they will qualify for the FL exemption. Doesn't matter how long it has been sitting in the boat yard.
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Old 10-04-2020, 08:13   #54
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Re: Use tax question Florida

Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
There is an exemption for FL sales and use tax that the OP probably qualifies for.

If you meet and can prove the following:

- Boat was purchased outside FL
- Buyer was not a legal resident of FL at the time
- Boat was purchased and used legitimately, within the US or US territories, for at least six months before the boat or owner began residing in FL.

If all the above then you should be exempt from FL sales taxes, even if you did not pay tax in another state.

Quote:
Originally Posted by denverd0n View Post
All correct, with the one addition above. Taking the boat outside of the US does not count towards the six months. Hence, in the case of the person who took their boat to the Bahamas for six months, use tax is still due.
Denver, I'll try to look up the Florida tax code for the statutory citation.

Copied below is from the Department of Revenue guide titled:

Sales and Use Tax on Boats
Information for Owners and Purchasers

Reference link: https://floridarevenue.com/Forms_lib...t/gt800005.pdf

What is Taxable?

Sales and Use Tax

All boats sold, delivered, used, or stored in Florida are subject to Florida’s sales and use tax, plus any applicable discretionary sales surtax, unless exempt. Florida boat dealers and brokers are required to collect tax from the purchaser at the time of sale or delivery.

When a boat is sold by someone other than a registered boat dealer or a boat is brought into Florida for use in Florida, Florida use tax is due. The “use” part of Florida’s sales and use tax provides uniform taxation of items. Florida’s six percent (6%) use tax, plus any applicable discretionary sales
surtax, is due on a boat used or stored in Florida when:

• The boat is purchased from a person who is not a registered boat dealer and the sale or delivery of the boat occurs in Florida;

The boat is purchased in another state, territory of the United States, or District of Columbia and is brought into Florida within six (6) months of the purchase date; or

• The boat is purchased in a foreign country and is brought into Florida at any time.

When the purchaser does not pay Florida sales and use tax to the seller for a boat purchase, any sales and use tax, plus any applicable discretionary sales surtax, is paid to the county tax collector, licensed private tag agency, or the Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles when registering the boat in Florida.

Per the language denoting when use tax is due, there does not seem to be any specific requirement that a boat purchased in another state [e.g., Texas as was the case for the Original Post], territory of the United States, or District of Columbia must stay within the USA territorial limits before it is brought into Florida within six months of the purchase date. The language does not specify where the boat must be located other than it be outside of Florida for the six month period after the date of out of state purchase.

Might you be able to provide a link to a citation that specifies where the boat must be located during the six month exempting period? Thank you.
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Old 10-04-2020, 08:35   #55
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Re: Use tax question Florida

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zzmeyer View Post
The following is from the form I just furnished the state of Florida:
[I][I]6.
Within 30 days of the date of departure from Florida of the herein described boat, I agree to furnish the Florida Department of Revenue with written proof that this vessel was licensed, titled, registered or documented outside Florida; and
7.
Within 10 days of the date of departure of the herein described vessel, I agree to furnish the Florida Department of Revenue with invoices for fuel, dockage charges, or repairs issued by out-of-state vendors or suppliers or other documentary evidence which specifically identifies this boat, including the hull ID number; and

I am aware of a case in which the owner failed to do this. Although he was originally billed for the tax, they did not enforce it when he provided the proof. The problem was that it was quite some time after he had left the state and it was an effort to get the documentation.
Zz:

That is from Form GT-500003 and is applicable for a non-resident purchasing a boat from a Florida boat dealer and which non-resident is pursuing an exemption from Sales taxation, by promptly removing the boat from Florida which exemption requires an affidavit from the non-resident buyer promising that they will fulfill the prompt removal and then supply the documentary evidence to the State of Florida that they did fulfill the requirement to have the sale of the boat by the boat dealer to be exempt from Sale taxation. It is not applicable to the OP's purchase in Texas. The OP is not subject to Florida Sale taxation because the Sale of the boat did not occur in Florida. Of issue is whether the OP can obtain an exemption from Florida Use taxation which seemingly Rachel could if they did in fact not enter Florida waters for at least six months after purchasing the boat in Texas. They apparently went to the Bahamas for a considerable period of time.

Of keen technical issue is whether the OP transited their out of state purchased vessel through Florida waters on their way from Texas to the Bahamas as that would mean that they did enter Florida within six months of the out of state purchase of their boat and which transitory entry into Florida, may then have invoked Use taxation becoming due. The potential short transit usage of Florida waters may be a Gotcha Ya as to not receiving the exemption from Use taxation. Rachel may have brought the boat into Florida when traveling to the Bahamas and thus failed to keep the boat out of Florida for the full first six months after purchasing the boat out of state and thus lost the opportunity to qualify for an exemption. Use taxation is a highly technical. Any use within a State can trigger the privilege taxation on the tangible good.

http://https://floridarevenue.com/Fo...t/gt800005.pdf

When is Tax Due?
Unless exempt
, a boat must be titled or registered in Florida with any county tax collector, licensed private tag agency, or the Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles:
• Within 30 days of the purchase date or the date the boat entered Florida; or
• Within 90 days after the boat enters Florida, when the boat is documented, licensed, titled, or registered in another state.
Florida use tax, plus any applicable discretionary sales surtax, due on a boat purchased in Florida or brought into Florida within six (6) months of the date of purchase, is paid at the time of licensing, titling, or registering the boat in Florida.

The devil can be in the details.
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Old 10-04-2020, 08:38   #56
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Re: Use tax question Florida

Seems to me they owe sales tax in Texas, or use tax in Florida, or they have to lie about it, or some combination of those things. Even if you get away with it, is it worth your integrity?

Turns out nobody wants to pay taxes. But someone needs to in order for us to have state services.

What address did they use with the Coast Guard? I'd bet they used a California address, which is why they're on California's radar.

They probably are going to need to come clean and pay some taxes somewhere.
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Old 10-04-2020, 08:57   #57
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Re: Use tax question Florida

Good article on this subject:http://www.oceannavigator.com/May-Ju...of-regulation/

Some facts to reminds:

Use tax

Use tax and surtax are not due on boats brought to Florida if you meet all of the following conditions:

• You own the boat six months or longer, and

• You have shown no intent to use the boat in Florida at or before the time of purchase, and

• The boat has been in use six months or longer within the taxing jurisdiction of another state, U.S. territory, or the District of Columbia. Time spent in foreign waters does not count as part of the six-month period.

«*Some states, like Florida, require you to state register your boat even if it is also documented. Needless to say, this generates some fairly significant fees for the state and the counties that issue the paperwork. By federal law documented boats that are also state registered are not required to show the numbers on the bow, but they are required to display the registration sticker in the location on the bow just as with a state-registered boat.*»
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Old 10-04-2020, 10:35   #58
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Re: Use tax question Florida

Quote:
Originally Posted by Northbound44 View Post
Good article on this subject:boating in Florida

Some facts to reminds:

Use tax

Use tax and surtax are not due on boats brought to Florida if you meet all of the following conditions:

• You own the boat six months or longer, and

• You have shown no intent to use the boat in Florida at or before the time of purchase, and

The boat has been in use six months or longer within the taxing jurisdiction of another state, U.S. territory, or the District of Columbia. Time spent in foreign waters does not count as part of the six-month period.

«*Some states, like Florida, require you to state register your boat even if it is also documented. Needless to say, this generates some fairly significant fees for the state and the counties that issue the paperwork. By federal law documented boats that are also state registered are not required to show the numbers on the bow, but they are required to display the registration sticker in the location on the bow just as with a state-registered boat.*»
Thank you Nofrthbound for the reference article.

I wish the article would have provided citation to Florida's Chapter 212 language specific to the sales / use taxation. I can not find anything in the code that mentions the language highlighted as: The boat has been in use six months or longer within the taxing jurisdiction of another state, U.S. territory, or the District of Columbia. Time spent in foreign waters does not count as part of the six-month period.

I have copied a portion of what appears to be relevant Florida Sales and Use taxation code:

F.S. 2014 TAX ON SALES, USE, AND OTHER TRANSACTIONS Ch. 212



Reference link: https://revenuelaw.floridarevenue.co...tax%20boats%22

Beginning at page 2217:

212.05 Sales, storage, use tax.—It is hereby
declared to be the legislative intent that every person
is exercising a taxable privilege who engages in the
business of selling tangible personal property at retail in
this state, including the business of making mail order
sales, or who rents or furnishes any of the things or
services taxable under this chapter, or who stores for
use or consumption in this state any item or article of
tangible personal property as defined herein
and who
leases or rents such property within the state.
(1) For the exercise of such privilege, a tax is levied
on each taxable transaction or incident, which tax is due
and payable as follows:

. . .

Continuing at Page 2225


(d)1. The user of any aircraft or boat of a class or
type which is required to be registered, licensed, titled,
or documented in this state or by the United States
Government imported into the county for use, consumption, distribution, or storage to be used or consumed in the county is located in the county.
Statutory language that basically states that a boat or aircraft which is required to be registered, licensed, titled, or documented in Florida [or by the US Government] is in the county for use, consumption, distribution or storage IS LOCATED in the county for taxation purposes. This means that a boat that is not required to be registered, licensed, titled or documented in Florida [or by the US Government] is not taxable in a Florida county. When the boat becomes required to be registered, licensed, titled or documented in Florida [or by the US Government] is becomes an item subject to privilege tax as to use or sale, but NOT until such required moment.


2. However, it shall be presumed that such items
used outside the county for 6 months or longer before
being imported into the county were not purchased for
use in the county
, except as provided in s. 212.06(8)(b).
Statutory language that excludes items as being not purchased for use in the county if the items was used outside the county before the item was imported into the county. The statutory language does not specify anything about for what reason such items are used outside the county, or place any restrictions or requirements of where such items are outside the county; the items just need to be used outside the county for six months before being imported into the county for use, consumption, distribution, or storage.

And continuing further from page 2225 of the document reference linked above:

(3) For the purpose of this section, a transaction
shall be deemed to have occurred in a county imposing
the surtax when:

. . .


2. However, it shall be presumed that such items
used outside the taxing county for 6 months or longer
before being imported into the county were not purchased for use in the county.

. . .

(i) The delivery of any aircraft or boat of a class or
type which is required to be registered, licensed, titled,
or documented in this state or by the United States
Government is to a location in the county. However, this
paragraph does not apply to the use or consumption of
items upon which a like tax of equal or greater amount
has been lawfully imposed and paid outside the county.

. . .

(k) The delivery of tangible personal property other
than that described in paragraph (d), paragraph (e), or
paragraph (f) is made to a location outside the county,
but the property is brought into the county within 6
months after delivery, in which event, the owner must
pay the surtax as a use tax


And continuing further from page 2240 of the document reference linked above:

(6) It is however, the intention of this chapter to levy
a tax on the sale at retail, the use, the consumption, the
distribution, and the storage to be used or consumed in
this state of tangible personal property after it has come
to rest in this state and has become a part of the mass
property of this state.

(7) The provisions of this chapter do not apply in
respect to the use or consumption of tangible personal
property or services, or distribution or storage of
tangible personal property for use or consumption in
this state, upon which a like tax equal to or greater than
the amount imposed by this chapter has been lawfully
imposed and paid in another state, territory of the United
States, or the District of Columbia. The proof of payment
of such tax shall be made according to rules and
regulations of the department. If the amount of tax paid
in another state, territory of the United States, or the
District of Columbia is not equal to or greater than the
amount of tax imposed by this chapter, then the dealer
shall pay to the department an amount sufficient to
make the tax paid in the other state, territory of the
United States, or the District of Columbia and in this
state equal to the amount imposed by this chapter.

(8)(a) Use tax will apply and be due on tangible
personal property imported or caused to be imported
into this state for use, consumption, distribution, or
storage to be used or consumed in this state; provided,
however, that, except as provided in paragraph (b), it
shall be presumed that tangible personal property used
in another state, territory of the United States, or the
District of Columbia for 6 months or longer before being
imported into this state was not purchased for use in this
state. The rental or lease of tangible personal property
which is used or stored in this state shall be taxable
without regard to its prior use or tax paid on purchase
outside this state.

Paragraph (b), below, I perceive to apply to fishing guide boats.

(b) The presumption that tangible personal property
used in another state, territory of the United States, or
the District of Columbia for 6 months or longer before
being imported into this state was not purchased for use
in this state does not apply to any boat for which a
saltwater fishing license fee is required to be paid
pursuant to s. 379.354(7), either directly or indirectly, for
the purpose of taking, attempting to take, or possessing
any saltwater fish for noncommercial purposes. Use tax
shall apply and be due on such a boat as provided in this
paragraph, and proof of payment of such tax must be
presented prior to the first such licensure of the boat,
registration of the boat pursuant to chapter 328, and
titling of the boat pursuant to chapter 328. A boat that is
first licensed within 1 year after purchase shall be
subject to use tax on the full amount of the purchase
price; a boat that is first licensed in the second year after
purchase shall be subject to use tax on 90 percent of the
purchase price; a boat that is first licensed in the third
year after purchase shall be subject to use tax on 80
percent of the purchase price; a boat that is first licensed
in the fourth year after purchase shall be subject to use
tax on 70 percent of the purchase price; a boat that is
first licensed in the fifth year after purchase shall be
subject to use tax on 60 percent of the purchase price;
and a boat that is first licensed in the sixth year after
purchase, or later, shall be subject to use tax on 50
percent of the purchase price. If the purchaser fails to
provide the purchase invoice on such boat, the fair
market value of the boat at the time of importation into
this state shall be used to compute the tax.

And continuing further from page 2241 of the document reference linked above:

(12) In lieu of any other facts which may indicate
commingling, any boat which remains in this state for
more than an aggregate of 183 days in any 1-year
period, except as provided in subsection (8) or s.
212.08(7)(t), shall be presumed to be commingled
with the general mass of property of this state.

And continuing further from page 2261 of the document reference linked above:
Boats that are temporarily docked in state at a registered facility are subject to exemption from state sales or use tax under these terms:

(t) Boats temporarily docked in state.—
1. Notwithstanding the provisions of chapter 328,
pertaining to the registration of vessels, a boat upon
which the state sales or use tax has not been paid is
exempt from the use tax under this chapter if it enters
and remains in this state for a period not to exceed a
total of 20 days in any calendar year
calculated from the
date of first dockage or slippage at a facility, registered
with the department, that rents dockage or slippage
space in this state. If a boat brought into this state for
use under this paragraph is placed in a facility,
registered with the department, for repairs, alterations,
refitting, or modifications and such repairs, alterations,
refitting, or modifications are supported by written
documentation, the 20-day period shall be tolled during
the time the boat is physically in the care, custody, and
control of the repair facility, including the time spent on
sea trials conducted by the facility. The 20-day time
period may be tolled only once within a calendar year
when a boat is placed for the first time that year in the
physical care, custody, and control of a registered repair
facility; however, the owner may request and the
department may grant an additional tolling of the 20-
day period for purposes of repairs that arise from a
written guarantee given by the registered repair facility,
which guarantee covers only those repairs or modifications made during the first tolled period. Within 72 hours
after the date upon which the registered repair facility
took possession of the boat, the facility must have in its
possession, on forms prescribed by the department, an
affidavit which states that the boat is under its care,
custody, and control and that the owner does not use
the boat while in the facility. Upon completion of the
repairs, alterations, refitting, or modifications, the registered repair facility must, within 72 hours after the date
of release, have in its possession a copy of the release
form which shows the date of release and any other
information the department requires. The repair facility
shall maintain a log that documents all alterations,
additions, repairs, and sea trials during the time the boat
is under the care, custody, and control of the facility. The
affidavit shall be maintained by the registered repair
facility as part of its records for as long as required by s.
213.35. When, within 6 months after the date of its
purchase, a boat is brought into this state under this
paragraph, the 6-month period provided in s.
212.05(1)(a)2. or s. 212.06(8) shall be tolled.
2. During the period of repairs, alterations, refitting,
or modifications and during the 20-day period referred to
in subparagraph 1., the boat may be listed for sale,
contracted for sale, or sold exclusively by a broker or
dealer registered with the department without incurring
a use tax under this chapter; however, the sales tax
levied under this chapter applies to such sale.
3. The mere storage of a boat at a registered repair
facility does not qualify as a tax-exempt use in this state.

4. As used in this paragraph, “registered repair
facility” means:
a. A full-service facility that:
(I) Is located on a navigable body of water;
(II) Has haulout capability such as a dry dock, travel
lift, railway, or similar equipment to service craft under
the care, custody, and control of the facility;
(III) Has adequate piers and storage facilities to
provide safe berthing of vessels in its care, custody, and
control; and
(IV) Has necessary shops and equipment to provide
repair or warranty work on vessels under the care,
custody, and control of the facility;
b. A marina that:
(I) Is located on a navigable body of water;
(II) Has adequate piers and storage facilities to
provide safe berthing of vessels in its care, custody, and
control; and
(III) Has necessary shops and equipment to provide
repairs or warranty work on vessels; or
c. A shoreside facility that:
(I) Is located on a navigable body of water;
(II) Has adequate piers and storage facilities to
provide safe berthing of vessels in its care, custody, and
control; and
(III) Has necessary shops and equipment to provide
repairs or warranty work.

Does anyone have other citations or interpretations, that they could share with us all?
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Old 10-04-2020, 10:54   #59
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Re: Use tax question Florida

Quote:
Originally Posted by rachelsavitt View Post
Hello all
So we bought our sailboat in Texas in dec2017, we live in California.
We went in a 6 month trip and then have had the boat dry stored in Indian town in Florida ever since

We never registered the boat in Florida: California is now trying to get us to pay taxes on the boat . I know we should be paying in Florida,

Now that we are overdue in Florida what advise does anyone have . Should we call Florida taxes and tell the truth and pay a lot and interest ? Can we say we recently stored the boat there ( last 90 days)

I don’t want to pay California and then have trouble in Florida

Thanks for help with our stupidity, this is our first boat

I moved from SF to BC in 2016. I saved my receipts sailing up the coast and copied my marina lease in BC, sent it to the CA tax guys with a nice letter. Received another letter from them a year later, and sent the same stuff to them again, haven't heard from them since. Just be nice, and you'll be off the hook.


This is my letter:


City of Oakland
Office of Tax Assessor / Property Tax

1221 Oak Street
Oakland, CA 94612

Re: Removal of Property from the State of California

Gentlemen,

The purpose of this is to formally advise you that we have removed our vessel from the State, and request that you remove us from the property tax rolls.

The vessel is a 1986 Catalina 34, Hull Number: ..................

We have moved the boat to Canada.

Attached are six pages of receipts for fuel and berthing indicating clearly that we sailed the boat from San Francisco to Vancouver Island. We did so from August 8, 2016 to September 18, 2016. Also included are the deposit and first month receipts from our new marina in Maple Bay, Duncan, British Columbia, Canada.

Please remove us from your tax records.



In addition, there have been a simply gagging number of posts on this forum about FL boat taxes. IIRC, if your boat is on the hard there, you should have no issues with FL taxes until you go in the water. You might want to do some searching here on this recurring topic.



Good luck.
__________________
Stu Jackson
Catalina 34 #224 (1986) C34IA Secretary
Cowichan Bay, BC, SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)
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Old 13-04-2020, 09:17   #60
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Posts: 142
Re: Use tax question Florida

You may/probably will get different answers at Florida tax collector office.
.... Hundreds of people have. I used to go to the particular Tax Collector office that gave me the answer I could comply with. ( Drove many miles).
.---Alabama. Some Florida boaters put boat in Alabama Marinas to Avoid Taxes.
( Just across from Pensacola in Alabama)
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